Animal Law with Dana Pannella
Warning: Sensitive content related to animal cruelty and neglect cases
Dana Pannella, associate attorney at Holland and Muirden, joins us for a discussion on animal law and prosecuting animal cruelty and neglect cases in Ohio. Learn about the difference in animal cruelty charges and why suspended jail time is not a bad thing. We review the Trumbull v. Charles Parks case, as well as other cases she has worked on including hoarding and bestiality.
Transcript
Welcome to the Animal Welfare Junction.
Dr G:This is your host, Dr.
Dr G:G.
Dr G:And our music is written and produced by Mike Sullivan.
Dr G:Today we have a very special guest, Dana Pannella, associate
Dr G:attorney with Holland and Muirden.
Dr G:, welcome Dana.
Dr G:Thank you for joining us.
Dr G:Thanks for having me.
Dr G:, can you give us a little bit of your background, tell people who
Dr G:you are and why you are where you're
Dana Pannella:at?
Dana Pannella:Sure.
Dana Pannella:So I am an attorney with Holland and Muirden out of Medina County, Ohio.
Dana Pannella:I've been with that law firm for about 10 years, although I clerked
Dana Pannella:there while I was in law school.
Dana Pannella:So actually a little bit longer than 10 years.
Dana Pannella:But our primary function is that we act as animal law attorneys and as animal
Dana Pannella:cruelty prosecutors in the state of Ohio.
Dana Pannella:So I went to law school at Case Western to practice animal law.
Dana Pannella:Ended up staying in Ohio, working in Holland and Muirden to pursue that work.
Dr G:I was really surprised by somebody that asked me the
Dr G:other day, what is a prosecutor?
Dr G:So can you let people that don't know what that is, can you
Dr G:explain what a prosecutor does?
Dana Pannella:So prosecutor is the representative of the state, we
Dana Pannella:essentially bring the cases that law enforcement has investigated to a judge
Dana Pannella:or to a jury to try to bring justice to, in this case, cruelly treated animals.
Dr G:So the animal control officers start the, the investigations and
Dr G:then they bring the case for you for evaluations to see if it, if
Dr G:it's enough to go to, to court.
Dr G:Is that how that process works?
Dana Pannella:Yeah.
Dana Pannella:So in the state of Ohio, humane agents are the primary enforcers
Dana Pannella:of the animal cruelty laws.
Dana Pannella:So these cases start with a complaint normally.
Dana Pannella:The agents go out, investigate the complaint.
Dana Pannella:Sometimes we have communication with the agents throughout the entire process,
Dana Pannella:throughout the entire investigation.
Dana Pannella:Sometimes we don't, but in the end, ultimately they will bring
Dana Pannella:forward their case file to us to determine if there's enough to
Dana Pannella:move forward with criminal charges.
, Dr G:so , what is animal cruelty and neglect and what's kind of the difference
, Dr G:in between the, in between the two?
Dana Pannella:So in Ohio we have two main sections for animal cruelty, which
Dana Pannella:are Ohio Revised code chapter 959.13, and Ohio revised code chapter 959.131.
Dana Pannella:And this divides up the categories of animals.
Dana Pannella:So one, three pertains to all animals, wildlife, livestock could
Dana Pannella:also pertain to cats and dogs.
Dana Pannella:But cats and dogs have their own section, which is 131.
Dana Pannella:131 provides for heightened penalties for acts of cruelty or neglect,
Dana Pannella:committed against companion animals.
Dana Pannella:And then there are many other sections that are companion sections.
Dana Pannella:So of course we have crimes against, um, dog fighting that's a crime.
Dana Pannella:Cock fighting poisoning animals, abandoning animals,
Dana Pannella:all crimes under chapter 959.
Dana Pannella:But the main two are one three and 131.
Dana Pannella:So some of these.
Dr G:Things that people may do against animals.
Dr G:Some of these crimes, some of them will fall as misdemeanors and some as felonies.
Dr G:So can you explain what the difference is between the crimes and what's
Dr G:the difference between the charges?
Dana Pannella:So the vast majority of animal cruelty or neglect
Dana Pannella:crimes in Ohio are misdemeanors.
Dana Pannella:Misdemeanors range from a minor misdemeanor all the way up to a first
Dana Pannella:degree misdemeanor, which is the most serious, the most serious misdemeanor.
Dana Pannella:The first degree misdemeanor is punishable by up to 180 days in jail,
Dana Pannella:five years of probation, either or a fine of up to a thousand dollars.
Dana Pannella:That's the highest level of misdemeanor, and it goes down from there.
Dana Pannella:The majority of animal neglect, cruelty crimes are second degree
Dana Pannella:misdemeanors, which are punishable by 90 days in jail, and a $750 fine
Dana Pannella:as well as five years of probation.
Dana Pannella:That's the most common crime there are.
Dana Pannella:A few felonies, very few.
Dana Pannella:One is dog fighting, which as a first defense is a fourth degree felony.
Dana Pannella:That is the highest degree of animal cruelty crime in the
Dana Pannella:state of Ohio, dog fighting.
Dana Pannella:The next one is companion animal cruelty, commonly known as Goddard's
Dana Pannella:Law, which includes serious physical harm committed against a campaigning animal.
Dana Pannella:And serious physical harm is defined by statute that also
Dana Pannella:has to be committed knowingly.
Dana Pannella:So there has to be proof of the intent behind the act, which
Dana Pannella:can be very difficult to prove, which is why it's a felony.
Dana Pannella:Um, and it goes down from there.
Dana Pannella:There's also a fifth degree felony for what's commonly known as nitros law.
Dana Pannella:Nitros law pertains to kennel operators, owners, or managers named after a dog
Dana Pannella:named Nitro, who was starved to death while at a boarding kennel in Youngstown.
Dana Pannella:That's also a fifth degree felony.
Dana Pannella:On a first defense,
Dr G:I worked a a case.
Dr G:This was like four or five years ago.
Dr G:And it was a dog that was starved to death in a basement.
Dr G:It was up in Sandusky, I believe.
Dr G:And it was a case where the, the owners of the dog, there were parents, it
Dr G:was a domestic violence situation, and they were assaulting each other.
Dr G:And then at one point they used the dog, like many domestic violent abusers do.
Dr G:They were using the dog against each other.
Dr G:And at some point, one of them just flat out said, if you don't do X,
Dr G:Y, and Z, I'm gonna starve your dog.
Dr G:And they literally starved the dog to death.
Dr G:So we were able to get all the information, evaluate the dog, and realize
Dr G:that yes, the dog was starved to death.
Dr G:There was no evidence of injury or trauma or whatever.
Dr G:But because there were so many other charges against them, the prosecutor
Dr G:at that time decided that they were not going to do anything with the dog.
Dr G:And I think that that would be important, right, that to add that
Dr G:extra felony, especially since they had information about that.
Dr G:Like would that, how would that be beneficial to add a felony against cruelty
Dr G:to animals in a case of domestic violence, especially when there's children involved?
Dr G:Yeah, and I think whether it
Dana Pannella:was prosecuted as a felony or as a misdemeanor, it
Dana Pannella:was important to bring that charge.
Dana Pannella:The dog is a victim first and foremost, and they deserve to
Dana Pannella:have their voice heard in court.
Dana Pannella:It's also important to keep it on the offender's record because
Dana Pannella:there were felonies involved for the domestic violence.
Dana Pannella:It's very unlikely that offender's record was ever going to be expunged.
Dana Pannella:That being the case, it would've included any crime that he was
Dana Pannella:convicted of related to animals.
Dana Pannella:That's an important thing to have on a person's record.
Dana Pannella:We know there is a link between animal cruelty and human violence.
Dana Pannella:So this is something that is important to have for that purpose,
Dana Pannella:but also to acknowledge the fact that this dog suffered greatly
Dana Pannella:because of this person's actions.
Dr G:So when a animal control officer, officers humane officers
Dr G:are bringing you their cases,
Dr G:what makes a strong case?
Dr G:What should they work on to make sure that you have what you need
Dr G:to be able to prosecute a case?
Dana Pannella:The critical thing of any investigation is
Dana Pannella:actually the investigation itself.
Dana Pannella:So you have to ask the right questions.
Dana Pannella:And humane agents are all specially trained through an opa, a program
Dana Pannella:before they can be sworn in.
Dana Pannella:And part of that training includes conducting investigations.
Dana Pannella:You have to make sure you're asking all of the right questions, collecting the
Dana Pannella:critical evidence, but more than that, you have to distill it to be able to
Dana Pannella:tell the story of why this fits into.
Dana Pannella:The offense, what makes everything that happened fit into the lines of the
Dana Pannella:offense as it's written in the statute.
Dana Pannella:And that can be very difficult because statutory language is not always clear.
Dana Pannella:Then you have other complications.
Dana Pannella:So humane agents are trained to recognize the signs of animal cruelty
Dana Pannella:neglect, but the next thing they need to do is consult with a veterinarian.
Dana Pannella:The veterinarian who either treats the animals or reviews the records afterwards.
Dana Pannella:So they need to make sure that they are getting.
Dana Pannella:A good statement from that veterinarian because that is yet
Dana Pannella:another witness in their case.
Dana Pannella:There are a lot of things that go into these investigations and I think
Dana Pannella:behind the scenes, most people may not realize exactly how much it takes
Dana Pannella:to bring one of these cases to court.
Dana Pannella:There's gathering the evidence, the photos, potentially videos,
Dana Pannella:writing the report, which needs to be quite detailed in these cases.
Dana Pannella:Getting the expert opinion of the veterinarian, perhaps taking after
Dana Pannella:photos if it's a case where the animal improved after treatment.
Dana Pannella:Gathering all of that information to be able to bring the case forward.
Dana Pannella:It's a lot of work.
Dana Pannella:This is live evidence and I think it is very different than any other kind
Dana Pannella:of crime where you have animals who are taken in, who are treated, kept
Dana Pannella:at a humane society or other shelter.
Dana Pannella:It's not a case where you can put a gun in an evidence locker
Dana Pannella:and that's the end of your case.
Dana Pannella:These are very different.
Dr G:Some of the cases that we have worked with, one of the, one
Dr G:of the concerns that I have, right?
Dr G:Like people ask me to help with consults and then there's not enough information.
Dr G:And some of it comes from either not enough pictures were taken or
Dr G:pictures were taken, but the quality of the photograph was not very good.
Dr G:So everything was blurry.
Dr G:Um, things are missed at the crime scene as far as, you know, we think
Dr G:that this dog was overheated, but nobody takes a temperature before busting in
Dr G:the door and, and that kind of stuff.
Dr G:So from a veterinarian perspective, what are the kind of things that you
Dr G:need from a veterinarian to include in a report to know that there has been
Dr G:a problem with neglect or cruelty to
Dana Pannella:an animal.
Dana Pannella:So I think the first thing that vets should know about this is
Dana Pannella:don't be afraid to ask questions.
Dana Pannella:So if they receive.
Dana Pannella:Insufficient photos or reports, or they simply don't understand what
Dana Pannella:exactly the scope of the situation is.
Dana Pannella:Don't be afraid to go back to the humane agent and say, Hey, you
Dana Pannella:know, I need more information about this before I can fully understand
Dana Pannella:the situation to write a report.
Dana Pannella:And that's perfectly allowed.
Dana Pannella:So if there are questions veterinarians can ask them.
Dana Pannella:I do the same thing when I'm looking at an investigatory file is, you know,
Dana Pannella:this is great, but I need a little bit more information here before I
Dana Pannella:can make a decision about whether or not this is a chargeable offense.
Dana Pannella:Same thing for veterinarians.
Dana Pannella:Um, the other thing too is sometimes veterinarians are afraid to
Dana Pannella:give opinions when they haven't seen the animals hands on exams.
Dana Pannella:It is very normal for humane agents to call veterinarians where they're on scene
Dana Pannella:and say, what do you think about this?
Dana Pannella:You know, I am looking at a plastic barrel.
Dana Pannella:And it's 12 degrees outside and I have a pit bull chain to it.
Dana Pannella:Do you think that dog will be suffering from the weather conditions?
Dana Pannella:There are a lot of veterinarians who don't feel comfortable giving
Dana Pannella:an opinion without physically putting their hands on the animal.
Dana Pannella:It's okay to not put your hands on the animal and give an opinion.
Dana Pannella:It's to a reasonable degree of veterinary medical certainty.
Dana Pannella:That's the standard.
Dr G:Yeah.
Dr G:One of the episodes that we just recorded, I was discussing with a
Dr G:animal control officer from Colorado who asked a veterinarian, he wanted
Dr G:to press charges against somebody and the dog's temperature was 94 and 94
Dr G:degrees, which is very, very cold.
Dr G:That's hypothermia.
Dr G:And the veterinarian would not consider it hypothermia.
Dr G:And I think that a little bit of it, I don't know if there was a little
Dr G:bit of, they didn't wanna be told by the ct Oh, what to do, or they
Dr G:didn't, just didn't wanna get involved.
Dr G:But the end result was that dog was sent back.
Dr G:With dose owners, it was not treated for the issues that it had, like the
Dr G:dog was in pain, there were all these problems, and the dog ended up going back.
Dr G:And as a veterinarian, you could potentially get in
Dr G:trouble for, for doing that.
Dr G:Right.
Dr G:Especially being a mandatory reporter, how would that work out if somebody is
Dr G:so afraid , to say that something was wrong, that they actually don't say
Dana Pannella:that it was wrong?
Dana Pannella:Yeah.
Dana Pannella:So one of the great things we have in Ohio now is a mandatory reporting
Dana Pannella:by veterinarians of suspected animal cruelty, neglect of companion animals.
Dana Pannella:It is law in Ohio now that veterinarians have to report this to humane agents,
Dana Pannella:police, sheriffs, animal control officers, or whoever's enforcing the animal
Dana Pannella:cruelty crimes in their jurisdiction.
Dana Pannella:They can get in big trouble.
Dana Pannella:If they don't, it's a warning letter at first, then it's fines, but
Dana Pannella:it's also potential disciplinary action from the veterinary board.
Dana Pannella:The great news is if they make that report in good faith, they have
Dana Pannella:complete immunity, they can't be sued, they can't be prosecuted if
Dana Pannella:they made that report in good faith.
Dr G:Another thing that , Dan Edinger, the ACO, he was saying about how some
Dr G:facilities, he will request records and they will say, well, hold on.
Dr G:I don't know if I can give you that information.
Dr G:And they do not wanna release information.
Dr G:So what about, what about that?
Dr G:Yeah, so this is a
Dana Pannella:big misconception too, is that animal records are
Dana Pannella:protected by something like hipaa.
Dana Pannella:They're not confidential.
Dana Pannella:If you have a policy in your practice that you simply don't
Dana Pannella:release the records without approval from the client, that's fine.
Dana Pannella:This is slightly different though, because this is law enforcement asking
Dana Pannella:for assistance with a law enforcement investigation, and if you don't comply,
Dana Pannella:you're going to get served with a search warrant, and nobody likes that.
Dana Pannella:When law enforcement walks into your clinic with a search warrant and says,
Dana Pannella:now I'm going to look at all your records.
Dana Pannella:Bad idea, right.
Dr G:Just give them the records.
Dr G:Right.
Dr G:Exactly.
Dr G:It's, I don't know.
Dr G:I, that's exactly what we tell people.
Dr G:Like there is no HIPAA law, like there's a difference in between not
Dr G:handing out information like client information, client confidential
Dr G:information and that kind of stuff, versus releasing animal information and.
Dr G:When a, when an officer requests it, it's in your best interest to, to just comply.
Dr G:Uh, so speaking of warrants, that's another thing that people, , ask
Dr G:questions like, why, if I see an animal that I think is in distress, why
Dr G:can't I just break into that person's house and take that animal with me?
Dr G:, why is that not okay?
Dr G:And what kind of negative things can happen if you, if you do that?
Dana Pannella:So many reasons, it's not okay.
Dana Pannella:Um, for citizens, it's not okay because you could be charged with a crime trespass
Dana Pannella:breaking and entering theft, potentially obstruction if you were impeding on an
Dana Pannella:investigation that's already in progress.
Dana Pannella:Do not do this.
Dana Pannella:Do not do it.
Dana Pannella:Um, there are ways to help animals that are perfectly legal,
Dana Pannella:including calling law enforcement and letting them do their jobs.
Dana Pannella:They have the right equipment to do this job.
Dana Pannella:They have the right knowledge to do it, and they'll make sure all of the
Dana Pannella:legal guardrails are in place when they do it, because if you don't,
Dana Pannella:you could take that animal today and tomorrow it's going back to its owner.
Dana Pannella:The same situation will keep happening.
Dana Pannella:The other thing too is that people will sometimes try to buy animals off of
Dana Pannella:people they perceive to be being cruel.
Dana Pannella:Uh, the problem is that doesn't really solve the issue either, because that
Dana Pannella:person will then go and purchase another dog and do the same thing all over again.
Dana Pannella:It's a perpetuating problem unless you actually get to the root of it,
Dana Pannella:which is let the agents investigate, let them do their jobs, let them
Dana Pannella:take it through the courts, let them obtain that conviction, and hopefully
Dana Pannella:the pattern will stop at that point.
Dana Pannella:But to go in and use self-help, it's really a bad idea all the time.
Dana Pannella:Um, sometimes people do feel like it's an emergency and what I will tell them is,
Dana Pannella:You will have to accept the risk, then the risk that you'll be prosecuted, the risk
Dana Pannella:that this animal will be returned to its owner, the risk that nothing will happen
Dana Pannella:as a result of what you've put yourself
Dr G:through.
Dr G:Yeah.
Dr G:I think that some people, you know, we're all passionate about animals
Dr G:and they see something, and just because it's not the same circumstance
Dr G:that they would have their own pets, they think that it is not okay.
Dr G:Uh, like myself, I have my cats.
Dr G:They're indoors.
Dr G:They never go outside.
Dr G:They're pampered.
Dr G:They, they live the life.
Dr G:So I, if I see somebody that has a cat outside, then it's that idea of, well,
Dr G:how could they have their cat be outside?
Dr G:So I think about it the same way as people that own dogs, right?
Dr G:People that have their dogs inside and they sleep in their bed,
Dr G:but then they see a dog that is outside and living in a dog house.
Dr G:Well, that dog house may not be cruelty.
Dr G:It could potentially, depending on the circumstance, but.
Dr G:Not necessarily.
Dr G:How can people find out what minimal standards of care for owners or
Dr G:ownership are before they, they make that decision to contact somebody about it?
Dana Pannella:Yeah, and I think that's the really frustrating
Dana Pannella:part, is our idea of how we would treat animals is not always the
Dana Pannella:same way the law treats animals.
Dana Pannella:The law, I think, is very far behind how you or I would treat animals.
Dana Pannella:So that is a major frustration for most people, including
Dana Pannella:me and probably you, right?
Dana Pannella:The law does not match with how we feel about the issues.
Dana Pannella:So it's tough to talk about minimal standards because the law
Dana Pannella:isn't really laid out that way.
Dana Pannella:What the law says is any act, omission or neglect that causes pain
Dana Pannella:or suffering that is unnecessary or unjustifiable is animal cruelty.
Dana Pannella:Well, that's kind of a weird thing, right?
Dana Pannella:Um, I, so I think you and I now understand what animal cruelty
Dana Pannella:neglect is, is perfectly clear.
Dana Pannella:Wonderful.
Dana Pannella:Right,
Dr G:exactly.
Dr G:Um, very subjective.
Dr G:Nothing objective about it.
Dr G:Yeah.
Dana Pannella:So it is, um, an interesting legal standard.
Dana Pannella:However, the basics are that shelter is required unless it would
Dana Pannella:not cause pain or suffering that is unnecessary or unjustifiable.
Dana Pannella:So for example, if I have my healthy dog out on a 65 degree day and he
Dana Pannella:has no shelter, that's legal as long as he is not suffering right.
Dana Pannella:But that same dog outside on an 18 degree day or on 105 degree day with
Dana Pannella:no shelter is in violation of the law.
Dana Pannella:There's a continuum as to how our animals can be treated.
Dana Pannella:And that's what makes it complicated.
Dana Pannella:And that is what makes humane agents, the experts at enforcing these laws.
Dana Pannella:Because there is no black and white answer.
Dana Pannella:And quite frankly, it's good that there's no black and white answer
Dana Pannella:because we've seen laws enacted where it says, well, you can do this
Dana Pannella:as long as it's above 32 degrees.
Dana Pannella:Well, if it's 32 degrees, okay, it's illegal.
Dana Pannella:If it's 33, it's not.
Dana Pannella:So if you have an animal of a certain type, for example, a chihuahua who's
Dana Pannella:outside in 33 degree weather, that's okay.
Dana Pannella:Now, because it's not one degree colder, no it's not.
Dana Pannella:Okay.
Dana Pannella:Um, so these kinds of laws can actually create more problems than being helpful.
Dana Pannella:So those are some of the complications.
Dana Pannella:And we actually have great laws when it comes to things like shelter,
Dana Pannella:because our shelter code does not require proof of suffering.
Dana Pannella:The proof is where it would be reasonable and likely that the
Dana Pannella:animal would become sicker, otherwise sufferer due to the lack of shelter.
Dana Pannella:So it enables agents to act proactively.
Dana Pannella:So, for example, some of the polar vortexes we've had, they're able to
Dana Pannella:take the animal before they go off shift because they know it's going
Dana Pannella:to be negative 10 degrees that night.
Dana Pannella:It's reasonable that animal's going to become sicker in just a few hours.
Dana Pannella:They don't have to wait until it hits negative 10.
Dana Pannella:They can seize that animal.
Dana Pannella:Great law.
Dana Pannella:We also, of course, have laws about lack of food and water, same standard,
Dana Pannella:where it would be reasonable, the animal will become sicker, otherwise
Dana Pannella:suffer, and we have, um, beating laws.
Dana Pannella:Of course, you're not allowed to be an animal.
Dana Pannella:You're not allowed to poison an animal.
Dana Pannella:Torture, torment and medical neglect is also against the law.
Dana Pannella:So not providing veterinary care to an animal where that animal is experiencing
Dana Pannella:pain or suffering as a result.
Dr G:With medical neglect, sometimes we would see animals that
Dr G:Were being sent to us for evaluation because the humane officer would go
Dr G:and investigate or evaluate a, a call and find that there was a problem.
Dr G:So then the humane officer would say, you have a certain amount of time to go
Dr G:to the veterinarian to get it evaluated.
Dr G:But then there were times where people were coming in on their own , and looking
Dr G:for help for, for an animal that had been neglected for a really long time.
Dr G:And some of my peers will say, well, we can't do anything about it
Dr G:because they brought the animal in.
Dr G:So it is okay now, like they are seeking care.
Dr G:The most common things that I can think of would be masses, , would
Dr G:be excessive, , matting, long nails and that kind of stuff.
Dr G:So is it true that if they bring you the animal, it is no longer considered
Dr G:an act of cruelty and neglect?
Dana Pannella:That is not true.
Dana Pannella:So the act of cruelty has already occurred at that point, and it's important still
Dana Pannella:at that point to report it because that is the obligation of the veterinarian.
Dana Pannella:When the animal comes in and they see it as in that condition, they must report it.
Dana Pannella:The act of cruelty is not over yet, and it's very common that sometimes
Dana Pannella:they leave the vet clinic without obtaining all the proper care.
Dana Pannella:That too needs to be reported, but the bottom line is the act of cruelty
Dana Pannella:has already been committed prior to arriving at the vet, especially
Dana Pannella:if it's been a long period of time.
Dana Pannella:That's a really big problem.
Dana Pannella:That animal has suffered extensively.
Dana Pannella:And you know, the humane agent will conduct an investigation and
Dana Pannella:we'll determine why that occurred.
Dana Pannella:Maybe there was illness involved, maybe there was financial
Dana Pannella:reasons, whatever it was.
Dana Pannella:And that may affect the outcome of the case.
Dana Pannella:You know, whether it's resolved in education, which probably 90%
Dana Pannella:of these cases are resolved with education or whether it results in a
Dana Pannella:criminal prosecution, depending on the severity and the reasons behind it.
Dana Pannella:But it is the obligation of that veterinarian to report that potential
Dana Pannella:act of animal cruel to your neglect.
Dana Pannella:Yeah, and as a
Dr G:veterinarians, I mean, what all we're doing is creating
Dr G:our objective findings, right?
Dr G:Like just saying, this is what I saw, this is what I found, taking pictures.
Dr G:Please take pictures.
Dr G:Please write everything down.
Dr G:Please keep your your logs properly.
Dr G:Because anything, even if, even if something is not a court
Dr G:case, anything that we write on is potentially a legal document.
Dr G:So we have to be really, really good and really careful.
Dr G:And then that would be how to protect ourselves if a case goes to court.
Dr G:, with a veterinarian that may find themselves going to court.
Dr G:And they're not prepared.
Dr G:What would be the best way for them to prepare , for given
Dr G:expert testimony in court?
Dana Pannella:Yeah, so first and foremost, it's to review
Dana Pannella:their report and their records.
Dana Pannella:So sit down, review your report and records.
Dana Pannella:Make sure that you are refreshed on everything that happened.
Dana Pannella:Um, if you have questions at that point, again, don't be afraid to ask.
Dana Pannella:Most prosecutors are more than willing to talk to their veterinarians ahead of
Dana Pannella:trial, to prepare them to make sure they understand, especially if they've not
Dana Pannella:given testimony before, what the testimony might look like, what they might hear
Dana Pannella:from the defense attorney, what they might hear from the judge, and certainly
Dana Pannella:what they'll hear from the prosecutor as far as the line of questioning goes.
Dana Pannella:So preparation is certainly key that way.
Dana Pannella:There are no surprises when they're on the stand.
Dana Pannella:Nobody likes surprises.
Dr G:Nobody likes surprises.
Dr G:Yeah.
Dr G:And you know, knowing what to say and what not to say.
Dr G:Right?
Dr G:Because there are questions that are yes or no.
Dr G:Please stick to yes or no.
Dr G:Don't, don't keep elaborating on things that you may not need to elaborate.
Dr G:Don't get into a hole that you may not be able to, to dig yourself out of.
Dr G:Um, yeah, because I mean, that's the, that's the job of the defense attorney,
Dr G:right, is to try to poke holes and try to create reasonable doubt and make people
Dr G:find the, find the defendant not guilty because, I mean, that is their job.
Dr G:So know what to say, what not to say.
Dr G:Reach out to, to the prosecutors.
Dr G:And I think that it depends, like you guys are, this is what you do.
Dr G:So you know how to prepare veterinarians.
Dr G:But I know that I have worked in cases with.
Dr G:Other prosecutors that they haven't, they have not reached out to me.
Dr G:They have not talked to me.
Dr G:That they just send me the, the information on when I have to show
Dr G:up and I will bug them and say, Hey, I wanna talk to you, I wanna
Dr G:prepare, I wanna discuss things.
Dr G:And they're like, oh, no, no, it'll be okay.
Dr G:No, it's, it's not gonna be just okay.
Dr G:It, it needs to be fully prepared.
Dr G:, so going back , to cases, so let's say that, let's actually bring up a, a
Dr G:recent case we just worked on the case of Charles Park, which, , anybody that's
Dr G:not familiar with it is, uh, ex dog warden in Trumbull County that , was
Dr G:charged with not feeding dogs on two separate occasions at the dog shelter.
Dr G:So, , let's actually break down the, break down that case.
Dr G:What was it?
Dr G:What was he charged with and what were the findings and, uh, what was his sentencing?
Dana Pannella:So, uh, Charles Parks was charged with two counts of failing
Dana Pannella:to provide adequate food or water to the dogs at the kennel, the dogs that
Dana Pannella:he was in charge of providing care to.
Dana Pannella:And then he was also charged with two counts of failing to provide
Dana Pannella:general care, things like medication, cleaning, things of those nature.
Dana Pannella:So it ended up being four misdemeanor counts, second degree misdemeanors.
Dana Pannella:The interesting part about this case is that the humane agent learned
Dana Pannella:about it long after the fact.
Dana Pannella:It was not reported until a long time after it actually happened,
Dana Pannella:which meant there were no dogs.
Dana Pannella:She had no dogs to look at.
Dana Pannella:There were no dogs to be examined.
Dana Pannella:It's a very unusual case where you have no actual animal evidence.
Dana Pannella:All of the evidence was based on videos and witness statements and
Dana Pannella:testimony from people who were there, as well as reviewing records from
Dana Pannella:the kennel facility to determine what exactly happened here, and of
Dana Pannella:course, an interview with the suspect.
Dana Pannella:So all of those things came together to, um, form case, which was
Dana Pannella:enough to proceed to prosecution.
Dana Pannella:It was a very difficult case.
Dana Pannella:Quite frankly, we may not have won it had it gone to trial.
Dana Pannella:Um, the nature of the evidence is so difficult for people to understand
Dana Pannella:when you don't have a dog and you don't have a veterinarian, and he was
Dana Pannella:saying, yes, this dog was dehydrated, this dog was dehydrated, this dog
Dana Pannella:suffered from not having its medication.
Dana Pannella:This was very circumstantial.
Dana Pannella:There was no direct evidence.
Dana Pannella:Interesting case.
Dana Pannella:Um, ultimately he did enter a plea to one of those counts.
Dana Pannella:We recommended a longer period of probation so that he could
Dana Pannella:be monitored appropriately.
Dana Pannella:, unfortunately the court ended up giving him a much shorter period, six months in
Dana Pannella:ordering, um, an inspection of his home.
Dana Pannella:So while it wasn't exactly what we would've liked to have seen or what the
Dana Pannella:humane agent would've liked to have seen, it was certainly still a win because Mr.
Dana Pannella:Parks was convicted of this offense and is no longer working
Dana Pannella:with animals at the county
Dr G:facility.
Dr G:And his plea was no contest, right?
Dr G:I believe so.
Dr G:What does that mean when somebody pleas pleads No contest?
Dana Pannella:So no contest is, is not an admission of guilt.
Dana Pannella:It is an admission to the facts contained in the complaint.
Dana Pannella:So essentially, I am not necessarily agreeing that I did
Dana Pannella:this, but I'm entering a plea.
Dana Pannella:So, um, it cannot be used against the defendant in any future criminal or
Dana Pannella:civil proceeding, meaning it will not be taken into account if there are,
Dana Pannella:uh, lawsuits, things of that nature.
Dana Pannella:The fact that he was convicted cannot be used against him.
Dana Pannella:Um, so it is smart to plead no contest really, and it doesn't have much legal
Dana Pannella:significance as far as sentencing goes, but that is what a no contest plea is.
, Dr G:in his case, there was some jail time and it was suspended.
, Dr G:So what I, why is I see that that happens quite frequently, that different
, Dr G:cases have jail time suspended, and sometimes it will be jail time
, Dr G:suspended as long as they don't violate certain parts of their probation.
, Dr G:So why does that happen?
Dana Pannella:Yeah, so there are a lot of reasons this happens.
Dana Pannella:First and foremost, it is because in Ohio there is a presumption against
Dana Pannella:incarceration for first time offenders of any crime other than high level felonies.
Dana Pannella:So if you are a first time offender, the presumption is you should be
Dana Pannella:under community control, essentially probation, to give you a chance
Dana Pannella:to rehabilitate before we start taking more serious sanctions.
Dana Pannella:That changed slightly with a new modification of the law to the fifth
Dana Pannella:degree felony campaigning, animal cruelty code, which now gives judges
Dana Pannella:discretion on whether or not to sentence offenders to jail or prison
Dana Pannella:for a first time offense, discretion.
Dana Pannella:It does not make it mandatory to be clear.
Dana Pannella:So the reason that sometimes suspending sentences can be more beneficial than
Dana Pannella:incarceration is because it gives you a longer period of monitoring.
Dana Pannella:So we know the maximum of sentence in these cases is 180 days
Dana Pannella:for first degree misdemeanors.
Dana Pannella:About the same for felonies.
Dana Pannella:So if you send somebody to jail for all of that time, that's it.
Dana Pannella:That's the end of the case.
Dana Pannella:There's no monitoring, it's over.
Dana Pannella:They've sat in jail.
Dana Pannella:There's nothing else that can be done.
Dana Pannella:Probation, on the other hand, allows a process of rehabilitation and may
Dana Pannella:include checks by humane agents to see whether or not they're animals.
Dana Pannella:It may include restrictions on animals, whether it be none or a
Dana Pannella:limited amount, perhaps a limited amount that spayed or neutered.
Dana Pannella:It could include things like education courses and general monitoring to
Dana Pannella:make sure they're not committing further offenses while they're
Dana Pannella:on probation, and that can extend all the way out to five years.
Dana Pannella:So in those cases, if they violate the five year provision, there
Dana Pannella:is jail time suspended, jail time hanging over their heads.
Dana Pannella:So they have every incentive not to violate because if they
Dana Pannella:do, they're going to jail.
Dana Pannella:And they may not go to jail for the entire time.
Dana Pannella:So sometimes if there's a violation, I'll ask the court to impose part of
Dana Pannella:the jail time just so I can keep them on probation for the rest of the time.
Dana Pannella:And later we can continue imposing time, especially in
Dana Pannella:the cases of animal hoarders.
Dana Pannella:Or it may take a long time to break the cycle.
Dana Pannella:It's better to have them on probation for a long time under
Dana Pannella:monitoring and continually give 'em a little bit at a time.
Dana Pannella:I mean, we had one defendant who was in jail three separate times
Dana Pannella:because she kept accumulating cats during the term of her probation.
Dana Pannella:And on the third time, she finally learned she was not going to get
Dana Pannella:any more cats, and she's still had three years of probation left.
Dana Pannella:So, um, there is certainly a benefit to having that longer
Dana Pannella:period of monitoring than having a defendant sit in jail or prison.
Dana Pannella:Most people think of jail or prison as deterrent.
Dana Pannella:It's normally not.
Dana Pannella:Um, you have three square meals a day.
Dana Pannella:You have no life obligations.
Dana Pannella:Most of the time you'll get work released.
Dana Pannella:You can actually go to work and then go back to jail at night and sleep.
Dana Pannella:It's just really not much of a penalty.
Dana Pannella:Um, and it doesn't teach them anything.
Dana Pannella:There are no animal cruelty programs in prisons in Ohio that I'm aware of.
Dana Pannella:So what they're really learning is probably how to do drugs and maybe they're
Dana Pannella:learning how to do some worse crimes.
Dana Pannella:Um, you know, how to
Dr G:get away with things.
Dr G:Yeah,
Dana Pannella:I mean, how to make sure you're not letting people in
Dana Pannella:your house, you know, with consent and all of this, you know, fun things
Dana Pannella:that, uh, hardened criminals know.
Dana Pannella:So, you know, there are a lot of benefits to actually putting these cases
Dana Pannella:through a longer probationary period.
Dana Pannella:The other thing too is that Ohio has a unique law when it comes to companion
Dana Pannella:animals that courts can prohibit offenders from owning companion animals permanently.
Dana Pannella:That is really cool.
, Dr G:all the hoarding cases that I have worked with, there's
, Dr G:usually like a maximum of five years before they can own animals.
, Dr G:So is that based on first offense or is that just because of the type of offense?
Dana Pannella:So the five years can be imposed regardless of how
Dana Pannella:many offenses have been committed.
Dana Pannella:So that's the period of probation.
Dana Pannella:The ban can extend beyond the period of probation.
Dana Pannella:It's often used for repeat offenders or sometimes very serious hoarders where
Dana Pannella:there were a large number of animals that were harmed or the person is evidence
Dana Pannella:that they really are not going to comply.
Dr G:One of the things that I say cuz I'm really interested in hoarding
Dr G:cases and I have worked with different hoarding cases, both within the state
Dr G:and outside, is that mental health evaluations is not always mandatory.
Dr G:So is there a reason for that?
Dr G:And I mean, I personally believe that it should be mandatory in every case
Dr G:of animal hoarding, and that's why I did a master's in forensic psychology
Dr G:because I think that if we don't do anything to to help these people, then
Dr G:they're just gonna keep re-offending.
Dr G:What is the process for Mandatory Health Evaluations and why
Dr G:is it done and sometimes
Dana Pannella:not done?
Dana Pannella:I don't know why it's not done.
Dana Pannella:I agree with you.
Dana Pannella:I think it is critical in every single case of hoarding, and it is
Dana Pannella:allowed under the terms of probation.
Dana Pannella:So not only to get a mental health evaluation, but also to follow all
Dana Pannella:recommended treatment throughout the course of probation, which
Dana Pannella:can extend, again, five years.
Dana Pannella:So you can make sure that person is getting the treatment they need all
Dana Pannella:throughout that period, which is really important because during that length
Dana Pannella:of time, it's more likely than not that the pattern is going to be formed.
Dana Pannella:Right?
Dana Pannella:We all know it takes a long time to form a pattern to change our lives.
Dana Pannella:It's the same thing with offenders.
Dana Pannella:So if you have 'em on probation, they're getting the mental health services.
Dana Pannella:Hopefully they will rehabilitate by the time they're off probation.
Dana Pannella:So yes, I agree with you.
Dana Pannella:It should be recommended in every single case of animal hoarding.
Dana Pannella:No question about it.
Dr G:Yeah, I, I think that, you know, definitely with hoarders, given them
Dr G:jail time, it doesn't help anything.
Dr G:Right.
Dr G:It's a, it's a mental health disease, so you're not really doing anything,
Dr G:giving them fines and, and penalties.
Dr G:Okay.
Dr G:Like, yeah, it may affect them, but again, it doesn't really do
Dr G:anything like it's, they have this need to have these animals.
Dr G:, I was recently involved in a case that I was evaluating to see
Dr G:if there was neglect or cruelty, because there was a lady with a
Dr G:very, very large number of cats.
Dr G:She had 96 cats inside of her home.
Dr G:I went to her home and the cats were in perfect condition, not, well,
Dr G:I shouldn't say perfect condition.
Dr G:Some of them have ear mites.
Dr G:I have a couple of them had respiratory infections, and so there wasn't anything
Dr G:that I could say, yeah, this is animal cruelty and neglect, and I am kind of
Dr G:keeping an eye on that situation to make sure that it doesn't escalate.
Dr G:I think that I may have caught her in that in between while,
Dr G:while she's still able to manage.
Dr G:but one of the things that I was looking for was if there was a statute
Dr G:saying how many animals people can have, and I could only find a couple
Dr G:of areas that said, like a couple of counties that had requirements, but
Dr G:overall it didn't look like there was a requirement on the number of animals.
Dr G:So is that, is that correct?
Dr G:Uh,
Dana Pannella:Yeah, that is correct.
Dana Pannella:There is no state law that governs how many animals a person can keep.
Dana Pannella:Some jurisdictions do have those laws, generally they don't work.
Dana Pannella:Um, so your idea that you walked in at a good time is probably true because
Dana Pannella:it is going to descend into cruelty neglect in a short period of time.
Dana Pannella:If something is not done to reduce the population of that home,
Dana Pannella:there is not a single person who can take care of 96 cats.
Dana Pannella:It
Dr G:is not possible.
Dr G:And what I think is different in this case is that most of the hoarding
Dr G:cases that I've gone to is one person living by themselves in a home or
Dr G:potentially like two elderly people.
Dr G:This is somebody that's not elderly and she has a husband and she has
Dr G:a son, and everybody pulls together to take care of the animals.
Dr G:They're literally slaves to these cats, right?
Dr G:So they're cleaning after these cats every three hours.
Dr G:They have a schedule and she cleans houses for a living.
Dr G:So this is what she does.
Dr G:She, I walked into the house.
Dr G:The house smelled amazing.
Dr G:It's like you open the door and the fabuloso like smacks you in the face.
Dr G:Right.
Dr G:I brought my ammonia detector because I was like, come on,
Dr G:this, many cats in a two bedroom household, there has to be ammonia.
Dr G:Zero.
Dr G:Like it, it was not measuring.
Dr G:She has nine litter boxes like that, that should be nowhere near enough,
Dr G:and yet all these cats are going into the litter boxes because they're
Dr G:doing their best to keep it clean.
Dr G:But she even admitted that if any of them is not there., So if something
Dr G:happens to the husband, something happens to the son, something happens to her,
Dr G:then the balance is going to be offset.
Dr G:I'm just really interested in, and I don't want her to fail.
Dr G:They're really nice people, but very interested to see if that's, if we
Dr G:came at the, at that particular time.
Dr G:Now, one of the things that we did do was we went to her house and we sterilized
Dr G:every cat that was not sterilized, because that's how this problem started, right?
Dr G:That's how most hoarding problems start, is that somebody has a couple
Dr G:of cats and they're not fixed.
Dr G:And then cats will breed and breed and breed and breed, and then all of
Dr G:a sudden you have a bunch of cats.
Dr G:So her husband brought home seven cats.
Dr G:All seven cats were pregnant.
Dr G:Every litter was five or more.
Dr G:So this lady went from, she already had quite a few cats.
Dr G:She had about 30 cats to all of a sudden she has 90 cats.
Dr G:We sterilized everybody so that hopefully then, at least from what's inside of the
Dr G:house, there's no more cats coming in.
Dr G:But you always have the concern of they didn't, you know, even when they had
Dr G:30 cats, they just kept bringing more cats because they just don't know where
Dr G:to stop because they have such a big heart and they wanna save everybody.
Dr G:So, I don't know.
Dr G:I'm writing a case report.
Dana Pannella:It's not, and I mean, you know, when you think, when you think about
Dana Pannella:it, cats, you know, don't really thrive in those kind of environments either.
Dana Pannella:Mm-hmm.
Dana Pannella:So psychologically it's an issue for those animals.
Dana Pannella:It's going to become an issue for the caregivers too at some point.
Dana Pannella:You know, anybody who has a multi cat household knows that it can be very
Dana Pannella:difficult to determine which animal is having litter box problems, for example.
Dana Pannella:Mm-hmm.
Dana Pannella:Now, multiply that by 10 later, 15.
Dana Pannella:There may be very ill cats there that they will simply never be able to
Dana Pannella:identify, who will suffer as a result.
Dana Pannella:And I understand they care deeply about the cats.
Dana Pannella:I think most people who care for animals do actually care about those animals,
Dana Pannella:but it's also an act of selfishness.
Dana Pannella:Mm-hmm.
Dana Pannella:To continue to persist and have those 96 cats in the home.
Dana Pannella:So certainly sterilizing them was a good first step.
Dana Pannella:Hopefully they'll be open to reducing their population
Dana Pannella:to try to adopt those cats
Dr G:out.
Dr G:Yeah.
Dr G:And this is somewhere that I think where I think that mental health services
Dr G:needs to be available to help because there, there are very deep, deep-seated
Dr G:reasons and issues for why they don't wanna get rid of the cats because of
Dr G:traumas that happened earlier in life.
Dr G:So it's not as simple as saying, just trying to reason and say, Hey,
Dr G:you know, the cats are not okay.
Dr G:Their cats are coming to them and they're giving them affection.
Dr G:They get affection.
Dr G:they thankfully don't have any feral cats because that's another thing that
Dr G:I find in hoarding cases is that they think they have a certain number of
Dr G:cats and they have double that number.
Dr G:And a third of the cats are feral.
Dr G:So they're not there yet.
Dr G:But I think so important to get somebody , to provide some mental
Dr G:health assessment and then determine what's gonna be the best way to, to help
Dr G:these people voluntarily understand that giving the cats away potentially
Dr G:would be , the most humane thing to do.
Dr G:We'll see how that continues to develop.
Dr G:My concern is that I'm going to go check in and there's gonna be 150 cats because
Dr G:there's gonna be more cats coming in.
Dr G:So hopefully I'm wrong.
Dr G:What kind of cases can you share with us that you have worked on?
Dana Pannella:I have a lot of fun cases.
Dana Pannella:Um, the cat case you was talking about reminds me of a case of 89 rabbits.
Dana Pannella:We just had, uh, who started out as two and multiplied all the way up to 89.
Dana Pannella:In fact, they were stacked in cages to the ceiling, including
Dana Pannella:in the daughter's bedroom.
Dana Pannella:It was the defendant's child, minor child who called the Humane Society to report
Dana Pannella:their parents for hoarding the rabbits.
Dana Pannella:Oh, wow.
Dr G:How old was the,
Dana Pannella:the kid?
Dana Pannella:16 years old.
Dana Pannella:16.
Dana Pannella:Wow.
Dana Pannella:Yeah.
Dana Pannella:So, um, that particularly disturbing situation, um, more particularly
Dana Pannella:disturbing was the justification from the parents that their six or seven year
Dana Pannella:old child really loved these animals and they couldn't get rid of a single one.
Dana Pannella:So they tried to pin it all on their six-year-old daughter instead of
Dana Pannella:accepting responsibility for the fact that they themselves could not
Dana Pannella:bear to part with a single rabbit.
Dana Pannella:They were asked to surrender rabbits numerous times by the humane agents.
Dana Pannella:They would not surrender a single rabbit until ultimately they had
Dana Pannella:to execute a search warrant at the home and seize every single one.
Dana Pannella:Even after that happened, they requested a probable cause hearing, which is the post
Dana Pannella:seizure hearing that is mandated by law in which they have the opportunity to contest
Dana Pannella:the seizure in front of the magistrate.
Dana Pannella:At that hearing, they continued to justify having 89 rabbits.
Dana Pannella:And they blamed it on their hot water heater, um, being broken.
Dana Pannella:Okay.
Dana Pannella:And the magistrate interrupted the questioning and said, I'm sorry, what
Dana Pannella:does your hot water heater have to do with you having, what is it, 89 rabbits?
Dana Pannella:Um, and they couldn't answer the question.
Dana Pannella:Um, it was really incredulous that they simply could not grasp the
Dana Pannella:fact that there was a problem.
Dana Pannella:Um, they refused to surrender most of the animals.
Dana Pannella:They spent hours at the Humane Society identifying animals that
Dana Pannella:they would like to surrender and still had difficulty doing that.
Dana Pannella:It was, , really, really an interesting case from the
Dana Pannella:perspective of mental health.
Dana Pannella:So they were both convicted and placed on probation with mental health
Dana Pannella:treatment, a limited number of animals.
Dana Pannella:They were allowed to move their three dogs and two cats back into the house.
Dana Pannella:Once they had cleaned those animals were spayed or neutered, and now
Dana Pannella:they'll undergo checks from the Humane Society to make sure they're keeping
Dana Pannella:up on their mental health treatment and keeping up on not obtaining more animals
Dana Pannella:during the term of their probation.
Dana Pannella:So hopefully they will learn that five animals, which is
Dana Pannella:by the way, the city maximum.
Dana Pannella:Um, they wanted the exact city maximum cuz this city happened
Dana Pannella:to have an animal limit law.
Dana Pannella:, and they had cleaned up the house.
Dana Pannella:They did take those steps during the case.
Dana Pannella:So the inspection went well prior to sentencing and they were allowed to
Dana Pannella:retain those small amount of animals.
Dana Pannella:No rabbits.
Dana Pannella:No rabbits.
Dana Pannella:What happens to
Dr G:the, what happens to the kids in these situations?
Dr G:Since it's a crime against animals, what's the involvement with the kids?
Dr G:So humane
Dana Pannella:agents are mandated reporters of child abuse and these
Dana Pannella:things often go hand in hand.
Dana Pannella:So again, there's a cross reporting law.
Dana Pannella:Now, not only do Child Protective Services agents have to report suspected neglect
Dana Pannella:to humane agents, it's vice versa too.
Dana Pannella:So humane agents are reporting to children's services when they
Dana Pannella:see things like this happening.
Dana Pannella:In this case, the children were also removed from the home.
Dana Pannella:They were returned once the house was cleaned.
Dana Pannella:So imagine the awkward situation with the 16 year old.
Dr G:Yeah.
Dr G:What other cases have you had
Dana Pannella:was so many, I dunno.
Dana Pannella:What kinda cases do you wanna hear about?
Dr G:Let's see.
Dr G:Well, we just dealt , with hoarders, um, I mean, something that is kinda that
Dr G:I've had three of, and none of them have actually, well actually that's not true.
Dr G:One of them.
Dr G:, ended up with charges.
Dr G:It was a minor.
Dr G:It was a sexual abuse, sexual assault on a dog.
Dr G:I lost track of it, and it was because Covid happened, but it was a 13 year old
Dr G:that sexually abused their family dog.
Dr G:I recognized what happened.
Dr G:I was very open with the parents and I said, this is what happened to your dog.
Dr G:They said, the only person with the dog was the child.
Dr G:So I said, well, then your child was the one that, that did it.
Dr G:And they brought the kid into the room and I told the kid.
Dr G:I have a 17 year old, so I know how to not ask yes or no
Dr G:questions that they can tell me.
Dr G:No, I know the answer already, so I'm going to make you understand
Dr G:that I know the answer already.
Dr G:So I looked at him and I said, I know what you did.
Dr G:I just need to know what you did it with.
Dr G:And then he told me what he had done.
Dr G:So , my concern at that point clearly was for the dog, which I had the dog,
Dr G:and then my concern was for the kid, because he is a minor, and yes, he has
Dr G:done something horrible, but then are these parents gonna take this kid home
Dr G:and, and beat him because I mean, he did something horrible to, to their dog.
Dr G:I contacted the police, And when the police officers came in, they
Dr G:came in and they're like, well, I don't know what you want us to do.
Dr G:, you gotta call the animal control.
Dr G:I was like, , I want you to do something with this child
Dr G:because he did something wrong.
Dr G:He's like, well, it's not a crime.
Dr G:What.
Dr G:So I had to explain to them that it is a crime and you
Dr G:have to do something about it.
Dr G:So they had to go out and speak with a detective and then
Dr G:explain to, said, detective.
Dr G:And the detective told them, yes, it is a crime, so you need
Dr G:to take this child into custody.
Dr G:And they took him to the children's Hospital for, for an evaluation.
Dr G:And something that was really great about this case, if there is something great
Dr G:about a sexual assault case, is that a few weeks after everything happened,
Dr G:the dad came back to the hospital.
Dr G:, they allowed him to take the dog back into the house.
Dr G:They had the kid they had to, to be monitoring, but he brought the child
Dr G:with him and the kid talked to me and apologized and said that he wanted to
Dr G:get help and he wanted to do anything that he could to, to get better.
Dr G:But then , the dad explained that they were having a really difficult time
Dr G:getting him help because nobody would help them get the help that they needed.
Dr G:They didn't have insurance, they didn't have enough information.
Dr G:And then after that I lost track of the case.
Dana Pannella:Yeah.
Dana Pannella:So I think it would surprise most people to know that bestiality was not
Dana Pannella:a crime, you know, Ohio until 2017.
Dana Pannella:Yep.
Dana Pannella:Um, and there were some other offenses that we were able to use
Dana Pannella:to prosecute those acts, but only if an animal actually experienced pain
Dana Pannella:or suffering as a result, which is not always the case with bestiality.
Dana Pannella:So there were a lot of these offenses that were going un prosecuted because
Dana Pannella:it was not a crime in the state of Ohio to have sexual conduct with an animal.
Dana Pannella:Finally, in 2017, the law went into effect, and that was only after I
Dana Pannella:had written a model ordinance for a number of local jurisdictions who
Dana Pannella:started to pass it on their own.
Dana Pannella:So the municipalities in Ohio have home rule, and they are allowed to generally
Dana Pannella:pass laws that do not conflict with state laws that are stricter than the state law.
Dana Pannella:So there was a jurisdiction in Ohio City of Warren, who had a case of bestiality.
Dana Pannella:They were frustrated, they couldn't prosecute it, we presented
Dana Pannella:a model ordinance to them.
Dana Pannella:They passed the law, and shortly thereafter, another case occurred
Dana Pannella:that they were able to prosecute.
Dana Pannella:It was beautiful, but it made the state take notice.
Dana Pannella:And the state then finally passed this law to make it illegal at the state level
Dana Pannella:to have sexual conduct with an animal for the purpose of sexual gratification.
Dana Pannella:So that excludes things like artificial insemination for a veterinary purpose.
Dana Pannella:This is specifically for the purpose of sexual gratification of the human being.
Dana Pannella:There have been a number of cases.
Dana Pannella:The first one, again, shortly after this law was passed was the case
Dana Pannella:of Scott Turner in the city of Cleveland, and this one went all
Dana Pannella:the way up to the Court of Appeals.
Dana Pannella:Really interesting case.
Dana Pannella:It was reported again after the fact, which is what made it so difficult that
Dana Pannella:he had written letters to his prison, pen pal slash boyfriend, about an act of
Dana Pannella:oral sex he performed on his roommate's dog, and he described all sorts of things
Dana Pannella:in those letters, how when his prison boyfriend got out, they were going to find
Dana Pannella:a teenager to film these acts because Mr.
Dana Pannella:Turner had previous convictions of pedophilia.
Dana Pannella:Yeah.
Dana Pannella:Again, these things are closely linked, correct sexual crimes against
Dana Pannella:children, sexual crimes against animals.
Dana Pannella:So they thought they were gonna move on to dogs, and these
Dana Pannella:letters go on and on and on.
Dana Pannella:While the letters were of course intercepted because not only was Mr.
Dana Pannella:Turner on parole for his prior acts, of course they were intercepted at the prison
Dana Pannella:too, and it was reported to the Humane Society who conducted an investigation.
Dana Pannella:When they talked to the roommate, she specifically recalled her dog acting
Dana Pannella:odd that day, licking her vulva scared.
Dana Pannella:And that testimony was provided at trial, but there was no dog to examine because
Dana Pannella:this all occurred long after the fact.
Dana Pannella:There was no actual dog for a veterinarian to examine.
Dana Pannella:But the veterinarian took into account the testimony of the dog owner
Dana Pannella:about what she observed that day.
Dana Pannella:Looked at the content of the letter, and he was convicted at trial.
Dana Pannella:Convicted.
Dana Pannella:The interesting part, uh, there is that shortly after conviction, he was yet
Dana Pannella:again convicted of abusing a child.
Dr G:And with the case that I was just talking about with a 13
Dr G:year old, like the, the parents had little kids in the house.
Dr G:So you think about not just the fact that this kid just assaulted the dog, right?
Dr G:So it can be the first step.
Dr G:What's gonna happen after that, potentially molest the other
Dr G:kids, or sexually assault the other kids, or grow up and be a
Dr G:sexual offender or, or even worse.
Dr G:So, I mean, so important to identify and prosecute these cases.
Dr G:The, yeah.
Dr G:And
Dana Pannella:the frustrating part, by the way, is that these
Dana Pannella:are not considered sex offenses.
Dana Pannella:So people who commit bestiality do not go on any kind of sex offender registry.
Dana Pannella:This is an animal cruelty offense.
Dana Pannella:It is a misdemeanor offense.
Dana Pannella:It is a second degree misdemeanor.
Dana Pannella:Yikes.
Dana Pannella:Yeah.
Dana Pannella:The other weird thing about this section is that it does not include
Dana Pannella:the permanent ban on owning or caring for companion animals.
Dana Pannella:So it's a maximum of five years probation in these cases.
Dana Pannella:That's the maximum length of monitoring.
Dana Pannella:That's very frustrating.
Dana Pannella:So in some cases, we've been able to combine this with the companion
Dana Pannella:animal cruelty code under section 131 because the act arises to
Dana Pannella:the level of torture or torment.
Dana Pannella:And we saw that in a case out of Mahoney County, where the act that
Dana Pannella:was depicted on the video was simply so horrific that it undoubtedly
Dana Pannella:caused pain or suffering to that dog.
Dana Pannella:And not only did we charge in bestiality, we charged in our companion animal
Dana Pannella:cruelty too, and we were able to get the permanent ban by doing that.
Dana Pannella:So sometimes you have to use all of the tools in your tool belt to
Dana Pannella:really get the result you want.
Dr G:With cases of sexual assault in animals, like with this case, the dog was
Dr G:profusely bleeding, had profuse vaginal bleeding because the kid inserted a
Dr G:pen, and caused a lot of trauma.
Dr G:And in other cases, like when there is rectal penetration,
Dr G:it often causes rectal tears.
Dr G:And that in many cases will result in either severe infection or
Dr G:even the death of the animal.
Dr G:So , from what you're saying, the act itself is not the cruelty, the injuries
Dr G:that occur because of the act is how you can get them for cruelty to animals.
Dana Pannella:Exactly.
Dana Pannella:So the bestiality statute does not require any element of pain or suffering.
Dana Pannella:So, for example, oral sex is covered under the statute, which may not
Dana Pannella:necessarily cause pain to an animal.
Dana Pannella:Right.
Dana Pannella:But.
Dana Pannella:That's good.
Dana Pannella:You can prosecute under the bestiality law.
Dana Pannella:You may not be able to prosecute under the companion animal cruelty law.
Dana Pannella:Now, the case I just talked about that was oral sex, but the way it
Dana Pannella:was performed was such that it was absolutely torture, torment to that dog.
Dr G:Do you, have you prosecuted any cases where people have
Dr G:inflicted injuries like burns?
Dana Pannella:Yeah.
Dana Pannella:Um, it is rare that we see things like animals intentionally
Dana Pannella:burned anymore for some reason.
Dana Pannella:But what we do see a lot of, um, our.
Dana Pannella:Cases where we cannot prove whether it was unintentional or intentional burning.
Dana Pannella:So we had a case of a very badly burned dog, and the dog owner claimed
Dana Pannella:that he took a shower and then put the dog in the leftover bathwater.
Dana Pannella:So essentially he plugged the shower and then what accumulated
Dana Pannella:was a bath full of water, right?
Dana Pannella:His claim was that the burns to the dog's body, which were so horrific
Dana Pannella:that its skin was just falling off, was caused from him giving the dog a
Dana Pannella:bath in that leftover shower water.
Dana Pannella:Well,
Dr G:your feet would've melted, sir.
Dr G:I see.
Dr G:I see a problem here.
Dana Pannella:You know, maybe it was unintentional and the water
Dana Pannella:was a little too hot and you know, his shower story was not true.
Dana Pannella:Or maybe it was very intentional because he was mad at the dog.
Dana Pannella:Regardless, we cannot prove the level of intent, but what we could
Dana Pannella:prove is certainly that it was an active animal cruelty because he
Dana Pannella:didn't even get the dog treatment.
Dana Pannella:His neighbor called in seeing a horrifically burned dog
Dana Pannella:three days later in the yard.
Dana Pannella:Oh my gosh.
Dana Pannella:So certainly neglect of the act of putting a dog in a bath full of hot water that you
Dana Pannella:haven't tested, act of cruelty number one.
Dana Pannella:Act of cruelty number two, not obtaining veterinary treatment for the dog.
Dr G:And not obtaining treatment, not pursuing treatment
Dr G:by itself can be a problem.
Dr G:Sometimes we see dogs that have a foreign body obstruction.
Dr G:So clearly the owner did not feed the dog, the, the ball that got them stuck.
Dr G:But then they wait too long to bring them in, and now the dog is really,
Dr G:really skinny because of a medical issue caused by something else.
Dr G:But then they didn't seek medical attention.
Dr G:So then that would become a problem,
Dana Pannella:right?
Dana Pannella:Yeah.
Dana Pannella:And this is, this is why these cases are so complicated because a person
Dana Pannella:may see an emaciated dog, right?
Dana Pannella:And then you wanna see charges brought.
Dana Pannella:Well, the problem we have is which charge to bring, which is often solved
Dana Pannella:by our veterinarian because they're going to determine whether or not
Dana Pannella:it was lack of food and water, or whether it was something like medical
Dana Pannella:neglect because of an obstruction.
Dana Pannella:So we had a case with a corn cob that was lodged in the intestines.
Dana Pannella:The animal was getting skinnier and skinnier and skinnier,
Dana Pannella:but the animal was eating.
Dana Pannella:It was just, you know, compacting food essentially,
Dana Pannella:and nothing was getting through.
Dana Pannella:So it wasn't a food or water charge, but it was a medical neglect charge.
Dana Pannella:And that was determined by the veterinarian who did the necropsy,
Dana Pannella:because unfortunately the dog passed away.
Dana Pannella:This is how long this went on.
Dana Pannella:So the animal is eating and eating and eating, getting skinnier
Dana Pannella:and skinnier and skinnier.
Dana Pannella:And the owners did nothing until the dog passed away.
Dana Pannella:And then they wanted animal control to come and pick up the body.
Dana Pannella:And when animal control came to pick up the body, they reported
Dana Pannella:it to the Humane Society.
Dana Pannella:That's, you know, that is animal neglect, that lack of care for the
Dana Pannella:animal failure to obtain appropriate veterinary care where the animal
Dana Pannella:is experiencing pain or suffering.
Dana Pannella:And that dog was undoubtedly experiencing pain or suffering.
Dr G:We get into the, the issue of people that don't believe in euthanasia
Dr G:or don't want to euthanize their animal.
Dr G:And then as a veterinarian you are prolonging the inevitable, but at some
Dr G:point you believe that that animal is in pain, that it is suffering.
Dr G:Uh, I guess one of the best examples would be dogs with cancer.
Dr G:And you know, you keep giving them pain medications and you give 'em
Dr G:everything and anything that you can, and this dog is still miserable, but
Dr G:the owners are refusing to euthanize be it for personal beliefs or be it
Dr G:for religious beliefs or whatever.
Dr G:So can that still be considered animal cruelty?
Dr G:Is that something that a veterinarian should report?
Dana Pannella:It is absolutely animal cruelty and a
Dana Pannella:veterinarian should report it.
Dana Pannella:And of course, certainly, humane agents and myself try to handle those cases with
Dana Pannella:compassion because it can be difficult to determine when you should euthanize your
Dana Pannella:animal and to actually take that step.
Dana Pannella:But the bottom line is if you are acting against veterinary advice and
Dana Pannella:you have been advised this animal's experiencing pain or suffering to the
Dana Pannella:point that it should be euthanized, and you do not do that, that animal
Dana Pannella:continues to experience pain or suffering.
Dana Pannella:You're not helping the animal, and you're certainly not helping yourself
Dana Pannella:because you may end up in court.
Dana Pannella:The other situation we see a lot is lack of palliative care.
Dana Pannella:People sometimes determine that their animals are old and
Dana Pannella:they're just gonna let them die.
Dana Pannella:Well, we wouldn't do that to a human being.
Dana Pannella:We don't put human beings in nursing homes, strap 'em to a bed and say,
Dana Pannella:all right, you die when you die.
Dana Pannella:You know, we give them pain medications, we give them care to make sure
Dana Pannella:that the transition is peaceful.
Dana Pannella:There are individuals who will not do that.
Dana Pannella:Um, they simply do not provide the care that animals need in those last
Dana Pannella:of days where they truly need the most support, whether it be pain
Dana Pannella:medications, fluids, whatever else to make sure that they are not experiencing
Dana Pannella:unnecessary pain or suffering.
Dana Pannella:They don't even take him to the vet.
Dana Pannella:So dog gets diagnosed with cancer, the vet says, you know, your dog is
Dana Pannella:maybe three or four months to live.
Dana Pannella:You should come back and get some pain medication.
Dana Pannella:You know, when you think it's time or maybe some Nutra Cal
Dana Pannella:or some extra, you know, food.
Dana Pannella:And they never go back.
Dana Pannella:And they say, well, my dog was diagnosed with cancer.
Dana Pannella:He was going to die.
Dana Pannella:So what's the big deal?
Dana Pannella:Well, the big deal is the animal is not allowed by law to
Dana Pannella:experience pain or suffering, and it's not fair to the animal.
Dana Pannella:So,
Dr G:I really appreciate you sharing all of these cases.
Dr G:So do you wanna, , let people know how they can find out about your firm and
Dr G:how they get information about you guys?
Dr G:Yeah, so we have a
Dana Pannella:Facebook page, which is Holland Muirden, M U I R D E N,
Dana Pannella:where we try to keep information updated as to new laws, sometimes
Dana Pannella:interesting cases, and of course presentations, trainings that go on.
Dana Pannella:Some of those presentations are for ordinary citizens and
Dana Pannella:some are for law enforcement.
Dana Pannella:You can also contact us through our website and that goes for not only
Dana Pannella:humane societies or law enforcement, but we do general animal law too.
Dana Pannella:So things like dangerous dog hearings, custody issues, anything
Dana Pannella:that pertains to animals we handle.
Dr G:Well, again, thank you so much for sharing all this information.
Dr G:It has been great and I'm sure that we'll probably talk again sometime.
Dr G:I hope so.
Dr G:All right, and for everybody that's listening in, thank you for
