UF Animal Forensic Conference 2024: Cockfighting with Adam Leath

DrG: 00:00:05

Our next guest is Adam Leath.

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Welcome to The Junction.

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Adam Leath: Thank you

so much for having me.

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DrG: So can we start by telling us

what's your background and how it relates

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to the field of veterinary forensics?

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Adam Leath: Yes, so I began my

career in veterinary medicine.

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I actually wanted to be a veterinarian.

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I, uh, was a technician growing up,

working through veterinary school or

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as you say, working for the veterinary

school during undergrad and as a tech at

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one of the local veterinary clinics, uh,

was really interested in understanding

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more about what was happening, but

quickly recognized that the confines

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of a room, uh, without being able to

see the sun and feel the breeze was

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probably not the best fit for me.

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Um, and vet school was very expensive.

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So when I finished my undergrad,

which was in animal science from

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the University of Tennessee, I took

my first job as an animal control

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officer in Southwest Florida.

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Uh, for Lee County Animal Services.

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I worked my way up, uh, through the

ranks there, uh, and spent about five

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years, uh, with the organization and,

uh, was recruited by the ASPCA, where

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I ran their southeastern United States,

uh, from West Virginia, south and west

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of Texas, uh, where I consulted on,

uh, criminal cases involving animals.

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So I was very involved during, um,

my time during my tenure there and

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learned a lot, uh, responded to, uh, the

second largest dogfighting case in U.

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S.

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history.

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I was able to, uh, respond to one

of the the largest cockfighting

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cases I've ever been involved in.

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I had lots of just amazing experiences and

have a lot, um, that I owe to the ASPCA.

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Uh, during my time, they also supported

me in furthering my education.

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I have a master's degree in

veterinary forensic science here

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from the University of Florida.

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Uh, so that's kind of in a nutshell,

kind of what started me, uh, into all

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of this and I've never looked back.

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DrG: Awesome.

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So I am from Puerto Rico and as you very

well know in Puerto Rico, cockfighting

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is just, it's common practice, right?

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Like growing up, I had family members

that were involved in it and I, I just

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knew that something was wrong about

it, but I felt that it was more like a

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personal thing, however, since even though

I am from Puerto Rico and I know about

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the idea of cockfighting, I've never

been involved in a cockfighting case.

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So I want to discuss with you,

I suppose, how it's similar

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and different to dogfighting.

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So first of all, I mean, what,

what does cockfighting entail?

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Adam Leath: So, cockfighting in its

most simple form is the,h, forced

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fighting between two roosters.

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Uh, they do not use the hens.

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They only use the rooster.

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And it is essentially exploiting what

would otherwise be a natural behavior.

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And that is, you know, somewhat of

a territorial aggression, um, maybe

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a sexual aggression between species,

or excuse me, between individuals of

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the same sex, of the same species.

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Uh, they are taking what would normally

be a normal activity or normal behavior

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and exploiting that by putting it in an

unnatural setting, um, where the birds

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cannot escape and will continue to fight.

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Um, it is, it is different.

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It has some similarities to

dogfighting, um, but there, there

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are some pretty distinct differences.

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DrG: So is there any use for the females?

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Adam Leath: Yes.

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In fact, without the female, uh, they

couldn't continue the circle of the crime.

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So, the rooster obviously is the one

that's fought, but once they have

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finished and, and were successful,

they'll breed those roosters back to

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the hens, and that progeny is the next

generation of, of fighting rooster.

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DrG: In the cases of dogfighting

that I have been involved, there's

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always the concern for other

crimes, other criminal activity.

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Is that the same in cockfighting?

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Adam Leath: It is very similar.

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Um, to normalize violent behavior, uh,

between animals, it is not natural.

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And individuals who are involved in this

type of activity are commonly associated

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with other types of illegal activity.

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Uh, I've never been involved in a

cockfight that didn't involve narcotics.

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Um, I have been involved in cockfights

that had human trafficking, uh,

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child prostitution, um, lots of

other types of violent crime.

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The individuals who were involved in

this, oftentimes felons, who have,

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uh, access to firearms, which in and

of itself in most states is a crime.

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And believe it or not, there have

actually been people killed at cockfights.

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Uh, there have even been people

killing one another, trying to settle

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disputes over the result of cockfights.

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DrG: So, when we're going into

these, into these locations, we see

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things like paraphernalia and such.

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So, is it similar or is

there paraphernalia that is

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indicative of cockfighting?

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Adam Leath: There's paraphernalia that

is specifically, uh, attributed to

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cockfighting and that is the, the knives,

the gaffes, uh, some of the paraphernalia,

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the weaponry that is specifically

attached to the birds themselves, uh,

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that, that has no other legal justifiable

agricultural purpose, uh, it is only for

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the activity of illegal cockfighting.

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So that's why it's so important that

law enforcement and response agencies

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and animal control departments and

animal services agencies be able to

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recognize these telltale, uh, items of

paraphernalia so that they know that

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there needs to be further investigation.

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There needs to be involvement of many

different agencies, oftentimes at the

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state level, even at the federal level.

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Um, animal fighting is a federal

crime as well as a state crime.

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Um, and cockfighting is

illegal in all 50 States.

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It's not a felony in all 50

States, unfortunately, um, but

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it is a crime in all 50 States.

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DrG: So So, in dogfighting they

will use enhancers, so is that

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the same also in cockfighting?

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Adam Leath: So, there can be enhancers,

um, some of the examples of that,

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uh, bringing a minor to a cockfight.

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Um, we have had cases where minors

are brought to these locations.

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Um, depending upon, you know,

the individual circumstances,

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there are lots of other types of

crime that might also enhance it.

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And depending upon the state, there are

Uh, scoring system, so how many points the

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individual may have, uh, where they score,

uh, might depend on what their previous

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criminal history looked like, um, and

might also get them an enhanced sentence.

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So it, it really has some variability,

but there are abilities, uh, for the

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judge to enhance some of those penalties

depending upon those circumstances.

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DrG: Because it is, uh, the cockfighting

in itself is a crime, can you charge

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cockfighting and animal cruelty?

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Adam Leath: It's a really great question.

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And yes, very progressive

agencies are doing just that,

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uh, in cockfighting cases.

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The activity of fighting birds is

inherently cruel in that it produces very

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serious injuries, which often results

in serious pain and suffering for the

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animals that is oftentimes repeated and

prolonged, which are pretty specific

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elements in most states statutes for

it to rise to the level of a felony.

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Um, so it's important to know that yes,

animal fighting is a crime, but also

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animal cruelty should be considered

because the individual impact to

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the bird itself, um, may actually

rise to the level of animal cruelty.

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And so in many cases that we can

articulate after our veterinarians have

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examined the animals and can attribute

their specific injuries, um, to the

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activity, we would then be looking

for those particular, uh, cases for

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us to charge also with animal cruelty.

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DrG: One of the things that I saw

from your lecture that I thought

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was interesting was the housing.

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How we, we know that there's a dogfighting

area because of the housing, the

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blue barrels and that kind of stuff.

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And it seems that that is somewhat

similar in cockfighting as well.

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Adam Leath: It is a big telltale

sign, something that we look

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for, because it is very distinct.

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Most people in backyard, poultry

operations or, or egg production, or

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if you're raising, you know, birds

for, for meat or other purposes, uh,

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you're not going to typically find

that you need a lot of roosters , and

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if you're breeding chickens, you

don't need multiple roosters.

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If you have one rooster, they can

typically mate with multiple hens.

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So there really isn't a justifiable

reason to have a large number of roosters.

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In fact, if you'd asked many people

who have one, they probably wish they

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didn't have the one that they do.

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Um, so they typically have a

bit of a Napoleon syndrome.

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Uh, they, they like to, to be the boss and

tell people what to do and where to go.

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Um, so yes, it is important.

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Um, and certainly the housing.

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is important because it's used as

a mechanism to condition the birds.

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So the way in which they are housed

actually helps contribute toward

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their strength and endurance.

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What do I mean by that?

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So the construction of let's say a

teepee style house or one of those

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blue barrels, if they're staking

those birds to the ground, that's

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that long cord that they're attached

to isn't as long as you might think.

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And in fact, it's barely long enough

for them to fly multiple times and

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to land just right to hit that perch.

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So perching is a natural

behavior for chickens.

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Bad things happen to chickens when

they're walking around on the ground,

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so they don't want to be on the ground.

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So exploiting what is a natural behavior

of them wanting to perch and to fly, uh,

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ultimately conditions their ability to

either achieve or, or close to achieve

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vertical flight, uh, but their ability to

jump and fly in the actual match itself,

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might give them a competitive advantage.

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DrG: I think it's really funny that

you mention about how people don't want

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to have more than one, if any at all.

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I remember growing up in Puerto Rico,

I had a family member that I, that I

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stayed at for like, weekends at the

beach and they had one and it was so

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horrible waking up, you know, Like you're

up late because you're at the beach and

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everything and then it's waking you up

and screaming And then if you go outside

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and get too close it's chasing you.

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But is there a difference

between those birds and the birds

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that are used for cockfighting?

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Like are there breeds

like there are in dogs?

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Adam Leath: There are, and in fact,

um, they're selected because of their

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aggression towards other roosters.

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And in fact, often, they're, they're

varieties of exotic junglefowl or

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gamefowl as they're often times referred

to, and there are a long list of them.

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Uh, but, to differentiate one from

another, I will tell you, uh, I oftentimes

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have to ask the individual because they,

they may call it one particular bloodline,

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um, but it is, is quite varied depending

upon, um, who you're working with.

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And I want to kind of circle back

to something else that you said.

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It's important.

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You know, you said that the

rooster is always crowing and

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waking you up every morning.

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It's funny that what annoyed you

is actually how we get alerted.

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some of these cases.

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Oftentimes, neighbors get frustrated

by being woken up every morning

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and then end up calling in on their

neighbor who's got a bunch of roosters.

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And before you know it, you

know, we're in the middle of

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investigating a cockfighting case.

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DrG: In dogfighting, we see a lot

of these places pretending to be

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like championships from a dog show.

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And there are associations that are

supposed to be like pitbull show

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associations, but realistically,

they're dog fighting things.

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Is that the same thing with cock fighting?

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Adam Leath: So one example of

that, in my opinion, is the

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Gamefowl Breeders Association.

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Uh, this is an association that has

show standards that are eerily similar

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to what is exactly required to shape

and condition a bird for fighting.

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Um, but will, um, what in my opinion

is an attempt to legitimize or make

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to look like a legal activity, which

is otherwise, um, any legal activity.

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DrG: So when you're going out to

one of these cases to investigate,

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what are the potential challenges

or dangers, both injury or diseases

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that you can find at these places?

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Adam Leath: So these cases present

a serious threat to public safety,

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uh, as well as to the officer safety.

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So from a public safety standpoint

and public health standpoint, these

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yards where these birds are housed

oftentimes are riddled with disease.

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These birds are not housed in

very sanitary environments.

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And so it's very common for things

like avian influenza, Merck's, um,

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Pox, there's lots of things that can

even be zoonotic, um, things like

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Campylobacter and others that can produce

some pretty nasty things to people.

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Um, so just in general, they're

very unsanitary and present a

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health concern from that aspect.

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The safety aspect includes the,

both the two-legged, the people, um,

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they oftentimes have very extensive

backgrounds and are individuals that

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need to be approached with caution.

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In fact, I wouldn't encourage any

agency who is not a law enforcement

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agency, um, to be doing this alone.

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Making sure that there's an effective,

you know, safety response plan.

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How are you going to respond?

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What do you need to respond?

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And oftentimes many people think that,

you know, the investigation of these

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crimes are going to net you to show up

in some back alley or some, you know,

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uh, abandoned house where you're going

to catch the fight happening in progress.

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And that's rare.

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You typically don't.

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In fact, you don't even need to

catch them in the act to be able

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to prove some of those elements.

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Florida is just one example, but

even breeding and conditioning or

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having the paraphernalia is the same

charge as the people who are in the

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middle of the pit fighting them.

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Um, so I can actually charge someone

with having the birds if I can show that

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they're using them for this purpose.

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I can even charge someone who is being

paid to feed and water the birds.

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And it's just the yard person is out

there just trying to take care of them.

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If they knew that the owner was

fighting these birds, that's the

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same charge as if they were attending

or staging or promoting the fight.

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DrG: We know that it's really common in

Puerto Rico, as I mentioned, but is it

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common in any other territories or states?

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Adam Leath: So yes, um, and it

actually is legal in some of the Virgin

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Islands, and in some other territories.

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Depending upon your location, it

may actually not even be a felony.

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It may be a misdemeanor.

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Um, so depending upon your location,

it's really important for you to

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do the research, understanding what

your state statute requires, but

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even more importantly than that, what

are the elements of your statute?

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Because there are some states that, that

have some statutes that are written in

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such a way that it's really kind of hard

to prove what they're asking you to prove.

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I don't know whether that's

an intentionally vague or not.

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But some of those states have statutes

that, that make the elements really

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not helpful, uh, for the investigator.

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So depending upon the wording and

depending upon the elements, and when

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I say the elements, those are the, the

words between and and or and the statute,

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so any of those that are mentioned.

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That's what the investigating

agency is going to have to prove.

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DrG: When you go in to one of

these cases and you remove the

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birds, what happens to these birds?

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Adam Leath: It's a really great question.

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It's one that I didn't get

to cover much in the topic.

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Uh, I had some questions after

the presentation about it.

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Uh, there's really not a lot of

positive outcomes that can happen

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in these cases in terms of the

birds actually remaining alive.

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And the reason for that being, one,

is, trying to effectively rehabilitate

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a rooster while there have been some

studies and some people who have,

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uh, and some agencies who've been

experimenting with this and have been, uh,

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successful, it is very limited in scope.

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In the last cockfighting case I

did, it was more than 300 birds.

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And so, I don't have 300 people

with backyard flocks that are

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willing to accept 300, birds.

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So, oftentimes, if they were

even willing to accept them, um,

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the other challenge can actually

be what diseases they may have.

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The other concern being, um, if they

have a disease that's reportable,

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or a disease that's communicable,

um, they may even be close to a

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hatchery or a commercial operation.

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And certainly your state department

of agriculture would need to be aware.

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Uh, and there are even times where

states departments of agriculture

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will actually mandate the destruction

of the birds at the property.

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Um, so those kinds of things

make it especially challenging.

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But even when trying to rehabilitate them,

even trying to identify what diseases

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they have, um, there's a myriad of them.

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And in every case that I've been involved

in, we've always had communicable disease

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to other birds, and found it almost

impossible for either the Department

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of Ag to be okay with us spreading, you

know, what could potentially be, you know,

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something throughout the community , but

then on top of that, the more that we

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test, the more that we typically find.

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Um, and we're talking about

something like serious as avian

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influenza or things like that.

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It is almost always euthanasia.

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DrG: Excellent.

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Well, thank you so very much for

sharing your knowledge with us.

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And thank you for being here and for

everything that you do for the animals.

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Adam Leath: It was my pleasure.

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Thank you so much.

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I wish all your listeners the best

of luck and stay safe out there.

294

: 00:16:34

Keep doing the best of work and keeping

our two and four legged members safe.

295

: 00:16:38

DrG: Thank you.