UF Animal Forensic Conference 2024: The Veterinary Forensic Autopsy with Courtney Valerio

DrG: 00:00:05

Our next guest is Dr.

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Courtney Valerio, veterinary pathologist.

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So thank you for being here

and welcome to The Junction.

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Courtney Valerio: Thank you for having me.

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DrG: Can you tell us a bit about

your background and what drove you

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to the field of veterinary forensics?

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Courtney Valerio: So I have a

bachelor's degree in animal and

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poultry sciences, and then I worked

on a farm for a little bit after that.

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And I decided I wanted to attend

veterinary school, and during vet

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school, I really liked pathology.

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I liked that it was so visual,

and I could see disease.

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like actual disease.

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It didn't feel like I was, um,

guessing, uh, which sounds awful.

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Um, but for example, taking imaging

or, or things like that, we're always

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kind of doing our, our kind of best

guess, and oftentimes you are correct,

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but what I really like about pathology

is you can actually see the process.

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So I went into general practice

for a little bit and, through that

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and after some time there, I began

a pathology residency and upon

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completion of my residency, I then

went through a fellowship here at UF

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in forensic medicine or veterinary

forensic pathology, I should say.

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So that's kind of the background of that.

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Um, I particularly like pathology

because it is, the cases are very

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interesting, but they also have a

component that not only helps animals,

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but also helps people, basically.

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DrG: Kind of like a higher purpose?

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Courtney Valerio: Yeah, yeah, um,

and I think they're very important.

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I think it's important to, to see these

cases, for these cases to go through

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the judicial system, or even just for

more cases to, to be brought to us.

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Sometimes they just, for

other circumstances, don't

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get to go through the system.

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But, I think that it basically brings

kind of awareness to this because we've

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known for years and years and years

that there's a link between animal

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abuse and child abuse and elder abuse

and spousal or partner, um, violence.

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So , sometimes through, these

cases, we may be able to help

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other animals or help other people.

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So others may come to me and

be like, Oh, your job is so,

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depressing.

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Uh, and really, and it is, um, but

you really have to compartmentalize

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and think about the bigger picture.

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Um, and as far as what you're doing,

not only for like specifically

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this animal, cause you are giving

it a voice at the end of the day.

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Um, but for any others too.

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DrG: Yeah, I get that as well, that people

will say, like, how can you sleep at

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night, you know, with all these things

that you see, how can you go along,

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and I feel like it's, I'm looking from

here on forward, right, I'm trying not

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to dwell on what happened, I'm trying

to figure out what happened, so that

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I can get justice, and like you said,

keep animals and the community safe.

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Courtney Valerio: Very, very true, yes.

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And also, just for the sake of Science,

you know, um, every case I see, I don't

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automatically have like this image of

this terrible person unless we sometimes

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we give video or photos whatever.

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Um, but really, you know, in, in the quest

for the truth, a lot of times it is sad,

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but other times it can be exonerating.

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Um, for example, we've had cases

of suspected poisoning and it

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turned out the dog had cancer.

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So, you know, we were able to exonerate

everybody and be like, it's okay.

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You know, you don't have like this

sociopath in your neighborhood.

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This dog, unfortunately, just

passed away suddenly from that.

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So, , it can be, it can definitely

be used for, for both sides.

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DrG: So what's going to be the main

difference between a forensic autopsy

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versus like a general autopsy that

a regular veterinarian would do?

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Courtney Valerio: So in the veterinary

world, it is a bit different than

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the human world in that respect.

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Um, Because I, of what I assume

in the human world, I'm sorry if

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there are, uh, human pathologists

being like, no, that's not right.

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Um, but in, in the vet world

anyway, um, it is broken up

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into a further niched area.

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Uh, and so in, in general pathology,

really the cases that they

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would receive have no, no legal

matter kind of attached to them.

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They're, usually not cases of

suspected cruelty unless there's

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just out of necessity, um, they

would be given to that pathologist.

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But in, in general terms that type of

veterinary pathology, veterinary anatomic

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pathology, is used for disease control,

disease surveillance, things of that

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nature, or someone who maybe, known their

dog has died suddenly and they're pretty

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sure, you know, it's, it wasn't the

neighbor, but I want to know what happened

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may come to a, we call them in our,

, sort of world of diagnostic pathology.

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I, you know, maybe it came

through them for that purpose.

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And so from, forensics, when we receive

something, um, Really, it's because there

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is a suspected criminal or civil legal

matter that may need to be, uh, resolved

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or may come up or, or is very evident.

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And because of that, our documentation

of those cases is very intense.

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So, for example, in regular

diagnostic pathology we wouldn't

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take intake, tons of intake photos.

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We wouldn't take tons of, um,

photos of external exam , or of

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organs or anything like that.

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Usually it's, uh, very limited.

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And maybe photos would be taken

if there was like a, a very

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specific lesion or finding.

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But other than that, it's

not really, um, done.

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There's no chain of custody

associated with that body

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like there is for our cases.

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And the written reports of

ours are very different than

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the reports that are typically

written for diagnostic pathology.

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So ours, we hit every organ, normal,

abnormal, and you just really wouldn't

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do that in regular veterinary pathology.

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Usually you just hit the

points that are abnormal.

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And so it's really the documentation

that it, it kind of boils down to, um,

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and how different that those two are.

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That's not to say that we don't

ever see disease in our cases,

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kind of like what I said before.

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Sometimes even though we do all

this documentation, all this sort of

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stuff, you know, it's just becomes

an endogenous disease that we find

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and that is the cause of death.

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Um, so that's why it's important to have

the training of your residency before you

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try to take on the forensic aspect of it.

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DrG: And it's, I don't think that

a lot of people understand how

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intense a residency in pathology is.

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I guess you have to see a lot of cases

and then, see a lot of normal and a

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lot of abnormal, and then get prepared.

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Now, that said, a lot of rural areas may

have veterinarians that are, and they

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don't, not have access to a pathologist.

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So is it useless for a regular

practitioner to learn how

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to do forensic autopsies?

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Or is there a value in that?

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Courtney Valerio: That's a

really tough question, honestly.

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And it's because different Stages

of decomposition of these bodies can

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very easily mimic disease processes

that are often seen in the cases

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that we see in forensic pathology.

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So for example, um, if a body is,

is decomposed and mummified, it

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can appear like it's emaciated,

but it never was in life.

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or a phenomenon called livor mortis,

which is just the settling or pooling

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of blood within the vessels after

death, um, may appear like bruising.

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So it gets very tricky, uh, for

a general practitioner to maybe,

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um, overcome those obstacles.

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That being said, a fresh body.

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Um, maybe, um, especially if it's

something very obvious, like a gunshot

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wound or a stab wound, you may be able

to kind of forward that examination.

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But it's a big ask, I think,

for those general practitioners.

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They already have to do, you So much,

um, on top of that, you know, in human

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medicine, you have your anesthesiologist

and you have your radiologist and you

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have your dentist and the veterinarian

is Almost in a public eye, there's

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an expectation that they would be

all of these things, and it's a lot.

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Um, I remember feeling like, oh my

god, you have to be a jack of all

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trades in, in general practice.

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So to add on to that stress, you

know, to be able to then perform

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these autopsies to this really high

level, um, is, is to me very daunting.

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I mean, that would be like Asking

me now to, you know, do this

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complicated, surgery, maybe take

out a lung lobe or something, you

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know, it's, I think it's a big ask.

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Um, unfortunately I can see

why the ask is there though.

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But we're really hoping that through

programs like mine or even the veterinary

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forensic master's program, at least you

can get an idea, and you can be exposed

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to different things and that may help you

if you're in an intensely like rural area

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where there's not a lot of resources.

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With that being said, please email

us or call us anytime with questions.

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We're more than happy to,

to talk to practitioners and

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we do it quite, quite often.

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I know that there's not that many

of us, but with this fellowship

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program, we're real, just really

hoping to, to change that.

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And, uh, to kind of like pull

some people that might be like,

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Oh, I kind of am interested.

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Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

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It's cool over here.

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So, so we're really hoping to,

to expand the, the field in that

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way to help with that burden.

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DrG: Most of the time what people want to

know with a forensic autopsy is cause of

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death, but there's a difference between

cause of death and mechanism of death.

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So can you tell us what both things mean?

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Courtney Valerio: Yes.

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So cause of death is basically the

initial action that has been the impetus

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for, , all these tiny, uh, little be

physiological or biochemical derangements

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that end up to be the mechanism of death.

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So in other words, uh, blunt

force trauma to the head.

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So let's say someone hit a dog,

uh, with a baseball bat in the head

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and the dog is immediately dead.

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The cause of death would

be that blunt force trauma.

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The mechanism of that death

would be traumatic brain injury.

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And that's kind of kind of the difference.

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Another example would be a dog

with an intense hookworm burden.

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So hookworm will just suck blood,

they, consume quite a bit of blood.

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So if you have a very large

burden, it will result in a

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depletion of blood from the body.

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So the hookworm would be the cause

of death and the mechanism of death

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would be the anemia or the lack of

red blood cells in the body that would

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cause, multi system organ failure

and reduced oxygen throughout the

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entire body that would lead to death.

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DrG: What's the process for

doing a forensic autopsy?

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Courtney Valerio: So it's

quite an intense process.

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Usually our autopsies take

us at least two hours.

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If there are any external wounds

they will take much longer.

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And that's again due to all the intense

documentation for each individual wound.

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Uh, so the process basically starts with

us reading our intake forms and that

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will come with history of the animal, if

any, the immediate history, how it was

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found, any kind of witness or statements

from animal control or law enforcement.

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And then we would start

with our exam of the body.

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So that's an external exam.

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We look at the fur, we look at the

nutritional condition, we look at

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the feet, the claws, the hooves, the

teeth, um, all of that good stuff.

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And then we will take any, insects that

may be on the body at that time for a

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preservation or attempt to rear them.

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And then we move on to our internal

exam, which includes full skinning of

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the body to see the subcutaneous tissue

and then opening up the chest cavity and

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the abdominal cavity to view the organs.

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Each organ is then removed and

photographed, and then we do a more

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intense dissection of each organ, the

gastrointestinal system is completely

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removed and it's opened up, we get

to see, you know, what did it eat?

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How is it digesting?

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Is it creating formed

feces, things like that.

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All of these steps and all of these

organs are photographed as well.

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And, then we end with the collection

of very small pieces of those organs,

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and we collect them for two purposes.

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Say we have liver, we'll collect

a piece of liver for fixation, so

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we're stopping the rotting of that

tissue, and we may later use that

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tissue for microscopic examination.

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And then we'll also take a second

piece of liver for fresh tissue.

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So if we ever want to attempt to culture

bacteria from the liver or fungus or if we

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want to use that tissue for toxicological

exam or testing then we'll use that.

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The fresh tissue we freeze and we have a

locked evidence locker in which we have

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like freezers and empty space for room

temperature stuff and things like that.

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Each case we kind of evaluate if we want

to go further, further meaning microscopic

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exam and, or that ancillary testing.

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Uh, and about, I would say

about half to two thirds of

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our cases get microscopic exam.

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And then ancillary testing.

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So ancillary testing just means

any other thing outwith of gross.

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So what we can see with our eyes

at microscopic exam of the tissue.

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So that would be toxicological testing.

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It could be a urine analysis, snap tests

for basic, like feline diseases of the

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blood, like FELV, FIV, things like that.

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After we've finished all of that,

we try to put all these pieces

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of our, of our puzzle together.

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And hopefully we do get an answer.

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Hopefully we do get, why dead?

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Or, or why euthanized?

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Um, sometimes we don't.

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Uh, and that can be dependent on tons

of variables including where in the

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decompositional stage the body's in.

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If we do need to do like, say, tox

testing, can the municipality afford that?

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Or is the owner willing to go that

far, or do they want to stop here?

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So those variables can

come into play sometimes.

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Sometimes we don't think that that

testing is really going to yield

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anything , or we don't really

have a direction in which to go.

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Toxicological testing isn't like, It's

not like CSI where it's like, Oh, I

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sent it to tox, test for everything.

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You know, we still need to have

an avenue, you know, to go down.

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And sometimes we, we just don't,

we don't want to be like blowing

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800 for, for all this stuff.

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So it can be, it can be tricky sometimes,

but we, we really do try, and we

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really take a lot of time to think

about these cases, talk about these

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cases, uh, to help us find an answer..

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DrG: Is there any point at which you

would say that doing a forensic autopsy is

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useless because of too much decomposition

or too much damage, or is it always best

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to do an examination and see if there

is any information that you can get?

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Courtney Valerio: So I'll answer this

with something that I was taught really

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early in my residency, and you're

not going to know unless you test.

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And the same thing goes for these bodies.

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Even though they may appear to not have

any value, or testability, if they're

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bones in a bag, I think still we can

take a look at them and see what we see.

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We can even, bones in a bag, for example.

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Uh, we may have some fur on those.

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We may know the color or one of the

colors of the dog, or cat, which we

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would be able to tell from the bones.

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Are there any fractures?

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Is there any evidence

of a healed fracture?

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Things like that, that we still can glean.

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Um, we can even use very decomposed

skeletal muscle for that may be

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like a little bits hanging on,

we still may be able to glean

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something, you know, from that.

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We still can see, are there barbiturates

in the, in the skeletal muscle of

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this animal may have been euthanized.

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Um, so I think it does behoove

us to look at these bodies

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in, in no matter what stage.

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DrG: If we have investigators, , animal

control officers or veterinarians

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that are listening to this episode

and they're, and they're interested

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in having your services, how

should they preserve the body and

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what is the best way to submit it?

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Courtney Valerio: So it's

a really good question.

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When you practice in Florida,

things decompose quite quickly.

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Um, me coming from, uh, my residency

in Missouri, it didn't, you know,

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in the winter at least, you know,

it didn't happen that fast, but for,

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definitely for here, it, it can.

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So the best that I can tell you

is, for, for those that can drive

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to our lab, if you're able to, in

the first like 48 hours of finding

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the body, especially if it's

fresh, then that's great.

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Refrigeration is fine.

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If it's going to take longer or if you're

going to ship that body to us, frozen

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is probably going to be a bit better.

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We do prefer fresh bodies.

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However, we get frozen

bodies very, very frequently.

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There are

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artifacts that can happen

as a result of freezing.

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It doesn't preclude finding lesions

in the body or anything like that.

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It doesn't, you know, prevent

us from really finding answers

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that we were going to find anyway

if we were just given it fresh.

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Although it's kind of the

secondary, it's often the

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necessary way to to store a body.

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I think any really any way else.

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is, is really not it.

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Um, you definitely don't want to leave

a body out in the sun or outside, and

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this is just because of two things.

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The body will continue to decompose

even if it's cool, but of course

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in Florida where it's very hot,

we will get that very quickly.

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And then also because of scavenging.

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Scavengers will go for the

natural body holes and attempt to

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extract organs from those holes.

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: 00:19:46

And because of that, sometimes we won't

see all the organs or, the skin will start

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to decompose that it begins to form a hole

and then a scavenger will go in that way.

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: 00:19:59

Um, so sometimes then it can

be like, was this a stab wound?

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You know, was this a gunshot wound?

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: 00:20:04

Is it a hole from a scavenger?

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: 00:20:06

You know, sometimes we don't know.

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: 00:20:08

So it, In any case, refrigeration

or frozen, you can always call us

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: 00:20:13

as well, but if the body is outside,

please get it in, please double

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: 00:20:19

bag it, and put a tag on the bag.

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: 00:20:23

Another thing that's really

important for these bodies, not

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: 00:20:26

only for storage, chain of custody.

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: 00:20:28

So immediately right when you

pick up that body, a chain of

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: 00:20:32

custody form should be started,

and then continue on with the body.

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: 00:20:36

So the original form goes with

the body wherever the body goes.

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: 00:20:40

So we receive a lot of chain of custody

forms from, uh, different municipalities.

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Sometimes we have to create a

form when the body comes to us.

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: 00:20:48

And that's just, in the grand scheme

of things, it is just best practice

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to start the chain of custody form

right as you collect the body.

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: 00:20:58

DrG: How can investigators get a hold

of you guys if they want to submit a

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: 00:21:01

sample or a full body for an autopsy?

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: 00:21:04

Courtney Valerio: So, on our

website for the lab, we have Dr.

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: 00:21:08

Stern and his email and his phone

number, and Me, my email, my phone

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: 00:21:14

number, and that's really the

easiest way to, to contact us.

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: 00:21:19

DrG: Excellent.

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: 00:21:19

Well, thank you very much for

giving us your time and sharing

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: 00:21:21

your knowledge and thank you for

everything that you do for animals.

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: 00:21:24

Courtney Valerio: Thank

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DrG: you for having me.

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I've enjoyed my time.