Episode 36

full
Published on:

14th Dec 2023

Denver French Bulldog Hoarding Case: Puzak (2017) with guest Daniel Ettinger

In 2017, officers Daniel Ettinger and Salvador Aguirre were able to close a case that started in 2014. Marleen Puzak avoided investigation for years following complaints of animal neglect at her property. This episode breaks down the details of the case, a review on hoarding disorder, and the importance of mental health evaluations.

Our guest Daniel Ettinger (co-host of the Animal Control Report) shares with us his experience on this case, how he was able to obtain a warrant, his findings, what worked well, what could have worked better, and how him and his partner helped both the animals and quite possibly Ms. Puzak herself. This is an informational episode for anyone interested in learning more about animal hoarding.


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Mentioned in this episode:

Keep it Humane Podcast Network

The Animal Welfare Junction is part of the Keep It Humane Podcast Network. Visit keepithumane.com/podcastnetwork to find us and our amazing animal welfare podcast partners.

Transcript
DrG:

Hi, and welcome to the Animal Welfare Junction.

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This is your host, Dr.

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G and our music is written

and produced by Mike Sullivan.

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Today, repeat guest Dan Ettinger

from the Animal Control Report.

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Welcome back, Dan.

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Daniel Ettinger: Well, thanks for

having me and, you know, being

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part of that podcast network.

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The, uh, what did we call it?

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The Keep It Humane Podcast Network?

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DrG: Keep It Humane Podcast

Network, I believe so.

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Daniel Ettinger: It's fun to be a

part of, part of the network to have.

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My, you know, my homies

and homettes, if you will.

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I don't know if that's a thing,

but it is now it is now it is now.

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Thanks for having, seriously.

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Thanks for having, for having me.

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And, uh, I'm excited to chat about

some of the stuff that we got going on.

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DrG: Yeah, absolutely.

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Cause you know, I've been doing a lot

of cases recently or not cases, podcasts

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recently on animal welfare issues that

are really super important, right?

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We're talking about one health and the

importance of taking care of animals to

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decrease the intake of shelters and the

issues with no kill and everything else.

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But I've been doing so many of those

cases that I have not had a chance to

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dive into a forensic case, which is

really like one of my biggest passions.

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So I know that you have a huge case

that you worked on, and I'm super

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excited to talk to you about it.

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Daniel Ettinger: All right.

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Well, I'm excited to talk about it, dude.

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Um, I'm a little, you know, I'll

tell you what, I, little side note,

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sometimes we get distracted in life

and I got injured a little while back.

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I actually got hit by a dog.

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You can check out that, uh, that

whole conversation on, on our

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podcast, The Animal Control Report.

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I hope it was a big dog.

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Well, I'm not going to give it away.

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I'm going to lead people to our podcast

if they want to know, uh, what happened,

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but I've been kind of out of it, Dr.

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G.

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Like, I I don't sleep anymore.

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I'm, you know, doing prehab getting

preparation for having surgery.

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It's a, it's crazy.

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Like, I've never experienced

anything like this in my life.

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So I apologize in advance to the listeners

if I, uh, may seem a little bit out of it.

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DrG: It's all good.

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We love you anyway.

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Daniel Ettinger: No, that's great.

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DrG: So, yeah.

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So you want to start talking,

we're going to be talking about

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a case from Denver, correct?

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, with Marlene Elizabeth Puzak.

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So do you want to give people the

rundown of what that was about?

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Daniel Ettinger: Yeah.

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And so what I'm going to do, I

think probably the proper way to

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go about this is just to read the

actual affidavit that I wrote.

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In order to obtain a search

warrant for the property.

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We, we got a call in 2017 and I'll kind of

go through all this as I read it about a

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multiple amount of dogs on the property.

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And when we went out there,

me and my partner, Sal, Mr.

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559 himself, he and I had

some, there were some concerns.

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Sal, though he was a newer

officer with our department, he

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had Um, experience quite a bit

of experience in animal welfare.

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And so it was helpful to have

him on that that call as well.

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And we, we definitely put our heads

together and got this affidavit.

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So, if you're good with it, I'll just

start with the affidavit that was written

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and we can break that down and then go

through any like kind of the process of

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once we started removing dogs and stuff.

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So.

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DrG: Sounds great.

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And for anybody that's listening that

doesn't know what an affidavit is.

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Can you explain that to them?

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Daniel Ettinger: Yeah.

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So I think the best way to say

it's like a legal document or

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a probable cause statement.

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It's a report written that will basically

cover all the facts of the case that.

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you're working on.

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And so it's the grounds or the

probable cause you are trying

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to articulate to the judge.

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So when I submit an affidavit to

the judge, I submit that along with

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a search warrant telling the judge

this is what we're looking to seize.

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And then they either approve it

or deny it based on the affidavit

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based on the facts that support

why you're asking for the warrant.

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DrG: Fantastic.

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Well, let's hear it.

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Let's see what you

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Daniel Ettinger: got.

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All right.

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Here we go.

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Hoodies up for those that are, well,

I guess this isn't on TV, so they

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can't see me, but I'm now ready to go.

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So, oh, the way that I write, uh,

which to me is really important is I,

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I write in a chronological timeline

because I really want to paint

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the picture from start to finish.

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Versus jumping around start like,

because some will start with where

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their involvement was in the beginning

and then they'll go backwards.

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I'd like to start from the, the

moment where I feel that contact

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was made and is important to all

the way to where we pretty much end.

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So.

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This is gonna start on April 19th, 2014.

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Denver Animal Protection received a

complaint for a welfare check at South

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Irving Street, Denver, Colorado for 18

French Bulldog type dogs inside the home.

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Denver Animal Protection Officer

Jay Lapointe met with Miss Marlene

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Pusek, but was unable to enter the

home due to do a welfare check.

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Miss Puzak claimed ownership of four

French Bulldogs and stated she was

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watching a fifth dog for a friend.

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The fifth dog was a Dachshund type dog.

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Officer LaPointe issued Administrative

Citation:

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of rabies vaccination required

and Denver City License required.

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As of 7 6 2017, that Administrative

Citation was in collections, meaning

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that it wasn't paid or complied with.

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On July 29, 2015, Denver Animal

Protection received another

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complaint for 18 dogs living on the

property in terrible conditions.

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According to the reporting party, Denver

Animal Protection Officer Katie Kirk

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and Officer Jay Lapointe noted a strong

smell of feces coming from the property.

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A door hanger was posted for contact.

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Miss Puzak called and spoke

with Officer Lapointe.

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Miss Puzak stated that she was a

foster home for my fairy dog mother

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to rescue, and there were only 10

dogs on the property at the time.

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Miss Pusek would not allow officers

to do a welfare check on the home,

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and the case was closed at that time.

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On July 3rd, 2017, Denver Animal

Protection received a complaint

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for 15 dogs living at 2125 South

Irving Street for a welfare check.

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Officer Daniel Ettinger and Officer

Salvador Aguirre arrived at the home

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on July 6th, 2017 at approximately 2.

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21pm.

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Upon arrival, both officers could smell

feces and urine from approximately eight

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feet from the front door, Officer Ettinger

opened the front screen door and noticed

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a stronger odor of feces and urine.

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He also saw what appeared to

be dried smear feces on the

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front steps going into the home.

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There are approximately

six pairs of women's shoes.

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On the front porch with what

appeared to be feces on them.

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Officer Daniel Ettinger could hear

what appeared to be a television

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or radio inside the home.

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He knocked on the door and heard

multiple dogs barking inside.

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He was unable to tell how many dogs were

inside the home, but it appeared there

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were dogs barking from multiple rooms.

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All of the windows in the front of

the home had cardboard type material

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covering any view inside of the home.

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Officer Ettinger spoke with Ms.

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Nikki Gwynne, who owns My

Fairy Dog Mother Rescue.

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Ms.

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Gwynne stated that she

had not worked with Ms.

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Puzak for approximately two years.

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She claimed that Ms.

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Puzak also worked with three other

dog rescues in the area, but was not

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sure of the names of those rescues.

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On July 7th, 2017, I, officer Daniel

Ettinger spoke to the reporting party, Ms.

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Angela Angeline Lito, who stated she

is friends with the dog owner, Ms.

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Puzak.

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She stated that she meets Ms.

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Puzak often at the dog park, but Ms.

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Puzak will not let Ms.

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Lito or anyone in the house.

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Ms.

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Lito stated that she and Ms.

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Puzak bought two French Bulldog puppies

and littermates at the same time.

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Ms.

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Lito stated that she met with Ms.

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Puzak at a dog park in Englewood

,:

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Puzak had the French Bulldog puppy,

and a tan, intact male French bulldog.

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Ms.

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Lito stated that the puppy had red feet

and they were swollen, and she also

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stated the puppy's testicles were bright

red and he smelled of urine and feces.

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She stated that her puppy

from the SLA same litter, did

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not have any of those issues.

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She stated that tan French Bulldog

appeared to be underweight.

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Ms.

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Lito stated that she met with Ms.

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Puzak approximately two weeks ago

at the Chatfield Reservoir Dog Park.

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According to Ms.

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Lito, Ms.

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Puzak had a nine year old female

French bulldog, brown brindle

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in color, and a ten month old

intact male white French bulldog.

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Ms.

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Lito stated both dogs had urine stains on

them and were missing fur on their legs.

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Ms.

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Lito mentioned every time she met with Ms.

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Puzak, she smelled of urine and feces.

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She stated that the vehicle she drived,

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drived?

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Vehicle she drove also

smelled of urine and feces.

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Based on the smell emanating and

the statements made by Ms.

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Leto, I have reason to believe

through my training and experience

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there are multiple animals living in

unsanitary and unhealthy conditions.

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I have investigated multiple cases

with similar evidence and have

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found animals in need of immediate

veterinary treatment due to poor health.

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So that was the statement submitted to

the courts with the request to impound

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and I'll tell you what we put their items

to be seized were any and all animals

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that appeared to be sick, injured, living

in unsanitary conditions or an otherwise

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poor health or any dead or unborn animals.

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Any photographs taken during the

execution of the search of the property.

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And then we searched the

whole the whole house.

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DrG: That's one of the things that is

really important because I've been talking

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to ACOs and Humane Officers recently

about what needs to be and what doesn't

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need to be on a search warrant, right?

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So I've seen people that do not

include enough things in a search

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warrant, and then that can have the

The problem of things being eliminated

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from being able to be evidence.

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So can you talk about, you know, what

should be and shouldn't be included?

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And why?

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Daniel Ettinger: So, I mean, it starts

with when we're doing an investigation

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for animals, you want to have dead and

unborn for a multitude of reasons, right?

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If you just put any living animal.

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Right?

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Then it limits your scope to

any animals that is alive.

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So if you find dead animals on

the property, you may not be

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able to seize them based on how

your search warrant was written.

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And if you did, that could

jeopardize your case.

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That evidence that was seized could

be dismissed and the whole case

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could potentially even be dismissed.

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So I like to add dead and then unborn

because if you're impounding an animal

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that is pregnant and they have who will

A litter in your, in your care, right?

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You, you didn't have the, the

right to seize that animal.

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So you want to make sure

that you add that as well.

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And then the, the aspect now, some

people listening may say, like, well,

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you don't really need to put photographs

or videos taken while on scene or

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while you're executing the warrant.

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That was.

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That information was told to me

by our defense attorney, excuse

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me, our district attorney.

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The district attorney said that it was

important to add that just so there's

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no complications with any of the photos

that you take while you're on scene

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or any videos that you take while

you're on scene, though you may wear

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a body camera, those type of things.

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It's just important to have

that extra element in there.

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DrG: Yeah, one of the things

that I have seen as well.

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I'm currently taking animal law classes

at Lewis and Clark, and we're discussing

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about the things that kind of need to

be and not to be and and the things

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that defense attorneys can go after.

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And it's things as simple

as blood draws, right?

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Things as simple as being able to take

items from the from the environment,

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that if you do not include those kind

of things on your warrant, then they

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can say, well, You know, This animal.

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Yeah, you took you have a warrant

for this animal, but you don't have

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a warrant to examine said animal.

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So then you cannot really do

anything about it because they're

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considered property and anything

inside of that animal is considered

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the property of the client.

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Daniel Ettinger: And I know there

was a case out of Oregon, and I wish

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I had had that available where there

was a blood drawn done on a dog,

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and it was argued that it was, it

was done illegally and then I think

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it was taken to the Supreme Court,

and maybe it was, it was overturned.

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It was overturned, right?

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Yeah.

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So, um, but it's like, here's the thing

that I say with warrants and affidavits

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and such, like, you can't really

include you can't over include things.

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Just put it in there.

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Like, the, the worst case is that

you're just not going to use that

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information that you that you ask.

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And so, okay.

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And then some of the areas to

be searched, you have to put

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above and below ground, right?

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Because if there's clandestine graves,

you have to make sure that you have.

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Okay.

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The ability to to dig those up

and then exhume the bodies, right?

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That's really important.

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And then areas inside the home where

really, if you're looking for the

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animal itself, like anywhere that

a small dog can be housed, which

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is literally pretty much anywhere.

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Cabinets, cupboards, right?

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I mean, that's reasonable that

some hoarder may put a dead body in

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there or something in that nature.

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And in fact, we had dead

bodies in that house.

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And then the other part of it, too, is

if you're if you're looking for records

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to establish ownership, then you might

expand that area to be searched to

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filing cabinets, or even documents on

computers to verify ownership and such.

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So, you kind of have to think

large scale in that aspect.

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DrG: Yeah, absolutely.

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Yeah, that case.

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Where the blood evidence was trying to

be excluded and and it was excluded from

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the regular trial and it had to go to

a higher court, but it was because they

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were saying about how, you know, yeah,

you can have a warrant for somebody's

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purse, but it doesn't mean that

you can open the purse so they were

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thinking about the animals property.

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So it's like, well, you have a warrant

for the animal, but you don't have an a

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warrant for what's inside of the animal.

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But realistically, the way that they

that they won to start, as I understand,

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is that they they proved that the

blood tests on the animal were done.

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to provide medical care for the dog.

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So they were not doing it just to search.

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They were doing it as part of

normal veterinary routine care.

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And then by doing so, they found

out that yes, in fact, this

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animal was being neglected and

was suffering from malnutrition.

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So just word to anybody that's listening

that could potentially be in animal

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control and humane officers, you know, you

just got to be really, really inclusive

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in everything that you put in on a

warrant to make sure that you're covering

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your butt and everything that you are

potentially going to take from the scene.

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Daniel Ettinger: And then if you don't

have it, yeah, if you don't have it

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included and there's something that

pops up while you're on scene, you

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can always write an addendum and re

basically re, uh, get the warrant

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reissued with the new, new information.

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So that's important.

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DrG: Yeah, it's just, you know, we're

there to protect all the evidence

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and make sure that we have everything

that we need to provide a strong case.

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So, it's, it starts with, with everything

that's in writing, all the permissions

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that we have to go into, into a situation.

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So, you write the warrant

and you take it to the court.

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So, what did the judge, how

did it proceed from there?

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Daniel Ettinger: Yeah, so it's, you

know, when, if you've never written

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a warrant or been in that situation,

I think there's a stigma because

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of like movies or television shows.

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Like, the warrant just makes you seem

like you have all this power where sure,

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like, you get to violate somebody's

4th amendment legally and go into

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their property, but it's a big deal.

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Like, there's.

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A level of, you know, meeting with the our

city attorney or the district attorney,

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whoever it may be discussing the facts

of the case, making sure that what we

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put in the affidavit is accurate and we

have the experience and training that go

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along with the statements that we make.

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And then once the city attorney

approves it, or your district attorney,

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then it's off to the judge and we.

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You know, we talked to the judge, we,

we, you basically give the judge your

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affidavit and then you're just quiet.

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While the judge reads it, and then the

judge typically either asks 1 or 2 follow

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up questions and then just basically

says, raise your raise your right hand.

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And then you do swear under oath that what

you're saying is firm and true, et cetera.

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And then once you get the warrant,

you coordinate with the police

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department and say, hey, we're

going to go execute this warrant.

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Now, you may have to schedule a

time where the police department's

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available in this case.

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I can't recall.

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We might have just went

and then we called PD.

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We're like, hey, we're going

to execute this warrant.

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We get to the property knock on the door.

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There's no answer.

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And at the time.

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Instead of like, busting down

the door, we thought it was more

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appropriate to just call the owner

and say, hey, we're at your property.

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We have a search warrant.

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Are you able to come home and let us in?

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So we don't ruin your property.

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And she did agree to meet us.

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It probably took her 20 minutes or so.

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And that's when it just went bonkers.

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DrG: When, when you get a warrant,

do you have a timeframe that you

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have to execute said warrant?

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Daniel Ettinger: There's a 10 day

period from when you obtain the

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warrant to when it has to be issued.

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And so you have that 10 day period from

the moment it's signed, uh, to execute.

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DrG: So you get PD and you

show up, so, and she, she meets

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you, so what happened then?

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Daniel Ettinger: So she opens the door

and I have actually showed this video

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in a class that I do for hoarding.

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I still have some of the video of it

and greeted by about 6 or 7 French

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bulldog types in the, in the living

room, just bark in, you know, there's

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the overwhelming smell of what is feces.

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You're in and just the initial thing is

to go in, document the scene as basically

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as natural as it was before we entered.

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So video and photograph

upon entry is essential.

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So go in and start our video rolling as

we're taking photos and just basically

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do a walk through and try to get a count.

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So we have a better idea

of what we're dealing with.

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And so.

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The main room, the living room had

loose dogs and then a couple of

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dogs in kennels off of the main

room to the south of the house.

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Like, if you're, if we're doing

direction wise, the south side of the

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house had like a laundry room with

kennels on a table, double stacked.

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So there were probably 8 kennels in that

room with, I would say, 10 to 12 dogs

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because there were multiple dogs in some

of the kennels, they were wire kennels.

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And then to, uh, to, like, chest

freezers in that room as well, which

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obviously I'm bringing it up for a

reason, but we'll come back to that.

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Leaving that room, walking to

the north side of the property,

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there was a room, a kitchen.

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To the kitchen to the West,

and then like a kind of like

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a mud room also to the West.

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And so there were a few candles

in that mud room off of the

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kitchen and not to mention this.

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:

The floors are pretty much covered

in feces and the dogs have diarrhea

368

:

throughout all of their kennels.

369

:

It's pretty egregious

as far as all that goes.

370

:

So walk back towards the living room

and then there's a bathroom on the.

371

:

North side of the property.

372

:

And then from there, there's a bedroom

and then another there's two bedrooms.

373

:

One bedroom had multiple kennels in

there probably over 10 or 15, maybe

374

:

even closer to 20 dogs in that room.

375

:

And then there was one other bedroom

that appeared to be the primary.

376

:

And that had loose dogs in there.

377

:

There were probably four loose

or so, uh, in that room as well.

378

:

And so we, we, we gather our thoughts,

we go back outside, uh, we coordinate

379

:

with our other officers that were

on duty that day, and, and then we

380

:

started the impoundment process, uh,

after our first initial walkthrough.

381

:

DrG: So a little bit over 30 dogs or

so that you guys found altogether,

382

:

does that sound about right?

383

:

Daniel Ettinger: So the live dogs, there

were 37 total, and I believe there were

384

:

37, and then there were 12 deceased dogs,

uh, in the freezers inside the property.

385

:

DrG: One of the things that I try

to tell when I'm, when I'm talking

386

:

about how to proceed into crime

scenes is about the importance of,

387

:

um, Of planning and staging, right?

388

:

So we go in and as you said, you know,

you do a walkthrough and you check

389

:

everything out and you cannot take

animals, even if you think that they're

390

:

in danger, they're in hurt or whatever.

391

:

We have to think about the

fact that they are evidence.

392

:

So you have to go out and then figure

out from there where you're going to go.

393

:

So, so you go out, you talk about it.

394

:

How did it proceed from that point?

395

:

Daniel Ettinger: Well, and I think, as

you say, like, as you know, earlier in

396

:

my career, I think I'm fueled by, like,

excitement and fueled by anxiety and just

397

:

wanting to get those animals out of there.

398

:

And so we didn't go about it the

right way, though, we were pretty

399

:

successful with what we did.

400

:

I think the better approach would

have been once we got the search

401

:

warrant to reconvene with leadership.

402

:

To have a discussion, basically

brief ourselves on the case and come

403

:

up with a coordinated game plan.

404

:

And we did not do that.

405

:

That was an oversight on my

behalf and, you know, I learned

406

:

from it in some aspects.

407

:

And I think that, like, as we coordinate

future activities, it was, it was a,

408

:

you know, a good, a good planning or

a good opportunity to plan around.

409

:

Around this.

410

:

So basically, we called the

other officer that was on duty.

411

:

So there were 3 of us total.

412

:

Um, and then 1 person covering

dispatch for the night.

413

:

That was also an officer helping

us with some of the clerical

414

:

and administrative work.

415

:

But again, like, we talked about earlier,

there were 10 days to really execute

416

:

this, and she had no idea it was coming.

417

:

And so I think hindsight

being:

418

:

I would have loved to have.

419

:

Gone about it differently, just because

it would have made our process smoother.

420

:

It was pretty easy as a process.

421

:

We, we were able to, uh, basically

start with the loose dogs and

422

:

just load those on the trucks.

423

:

Right?

424

:

We were able to get Marlene to

actually identify each dog, which was

425

:

really impressive on a hoarding case

that she knew each animal's names.

426

:

There were maybe one, two or so that

she kind of struggled with at first.

427

:

And then she's like, no, that one is.

428

:

Whatever, whatever the name was,

that was pretty impressive by her.

429

:

And so we started with the loose ones,

uh, you know, got account for those

430

:

and then started with the ones we would

just go room by room were the ones that

431

:

were in kennels and just bring those

out and try to document each each 1.

432

:

And we, you know, we would document.

433

:

So once we started to clear rooms

and finally cleared the house, we

434

:

went back in and then documented

the house post post impoundment to

435

:

just show kind of the aftermath.

436

:

And you have to think too.

437

:

I talked about there

being feces everywhere.

438

:

The dogs tested positive

for Giardia, right?

439

:

So now you have a zoonotic that we

could be, uh, we didn't know at the time

440

:

that it was Giardia, but we found out

later, and thankfully none of us got it.

441

:

DrG: And was she pretty cooperative during

the whole thing, or was she, um, you

442

:

know, resentful or aggressive about the

fact that you were there for the dogs?

443

:

Daniel Ettinger: You know, she was not

aggressive, she was More just in a state

444

:

of like shock more in a state of like,

she can't believe that it was happening.

445

:

There was a moment where we were

running dogs back to the shelter.

446

:

And thankfully, it was

only like a 15 minutes.

447

:

Drive, um, so as we were transferring

animals back, the cop that there was only

448

:

1 police officer assigned to it and he

was sitting there with her, you know,

449

:

holding the scene, and there was a moment

where she wanted to go use the restroom.

450

:

And he asked, he called me like,

hey, can she go use the restroom?

451

:

And I was like, she can, I was like,

just I'd be mindful of her mental state.

452

:

Like, if you think that she's a

threat to herself, you know, the.

453

:

That might not be the best idea.

454

:

Like she might have something

in her bathroom that she could

455

:

take or she could do to herself.

456

:

Like if, you know, the police department

was really close, so I, I offered that

457

:

as an option, like, Hey, you know, if

she really does have to go, maybe offer

458

:

her that instead of, um, putting her

in a room by herself, because if you

459

:

think about it, like her whole life.

460

:

Is just crashing down, right?

461

:

Like everything that was her normal and

her reality, um, just came to a halt.

462

:

And that's tough.

463

:

Like, we, we definitely, we

sometimes lose sight that we

464

:

have that much impact on people.

465

:

Um, good and bad.

466

:

And in that situation for her, I

mean, obviously it was good for

467

:

the animals, but it was probably

bad for her to normalcy right now.

468

:

Thankfully, I think she got some

of the help that was required and

469

:

we can get into some of that later.

470

:

But it can be difficult for people.

471

:

DrG: Yeah, one of my big interest in

forensic psychology is hoarding, because

472

:

I think that, you know, there's, there

are different types of hoarders, and there

473

:

are people that kind of fall into hoarding

because they can't help themselves, and

474

:

there are people that fall into hoarding

for the wrong reasons, like Like,

475

:

puppy millers and that kind of stuff.

476

:

But, we have to go into these

situations for the animals, but

477

:

we have to also be a little open

minded about the human side of it.

478

:

Because not all of these hoarders

are criminals, um, per se.

479

:

Like, I mean, they're committing a crime.

480

:

They're committing animal

cruelty and neglect.

481

:

But, they're, you know, some of

them need help, need mental health.

482

:

And yeah, I wanna, I wanna get into that.

483

:

Once we get through all of this stuff,

because I think that's really, really

484

:

important to this case, but you had

mentioned something about some freezers.

485

:

So what did you find in said freezers?

486

:

Daniel Ettinger: Yeah, and before

I lose sight of it, we'll talk

487

:

of, like you mentioned, there are,

there are 3 types of hoarders.

488

:

Um, you have your exploiter, your

rescuer, and your overwhelmed

489

:

caregiver as we break them down.

490

:

Um, but you can be more than 1, and

I think she was more than 1, and so

491

:

we'll get into that here in a bit.

492

:

Uh, in the freezers, there

were 12 deceased dogs, uh,

493

:

packaged in plastic bags.

494

:

And she At first, when I asked her

what was in the freezers before even

495

:

opening them, uh, she claimed that she

didn't know or no, that's not true.

496

:

I opened the freezer and I saw

the dogs and I went out there and

497

:

asked her how many are in there.

498

:

And, uh, I think she said like eight

at first and there ended up being 12.

499

:

So that was the moment for me that it

kind of clicked that this situation,

500

:

like Granted, the situation was bad

from the get go, but once the, once

501

:

the deceased dogs were discovered,

that was really like that whoa moment.

502

:

DrG: And were they, were they puppies?

503

:

Were they adults?

504

:

Was that a combination of?

505

:

Daniel Ettinger: When we, when we, I

remember when we opened them up and

506

:

documented them at the shelter, they

all look to be adult, adult type dogs.

507

:

So they may have, you know,

died of natural causes.

508

:

How hard is it to do a

necropsy on a frozen dog?

509

:

DrG: One of the problems with, with

having a frozen dog is the fact that

510

:

you cannot tell time of death, right?

511

:

Because you are stopping all

of the changes that happen

512

:

once time of death occurs.

513

:

But freezing animals actually helps

preserve the cause of death.

514

:

So if, if they died and she

froze them immediately, that

515

:

actually can help the pathologist.

516

:

evaluate the likely causes of death for

those animals as opposed to if they had

517

:

been buried, if they had been allowed to

go through a whole decomposition stage.

518

:

Daniel Ettinger: Got it.

519

:

Okay.

520

:

Good info.

521

:

DrG: So what happened, uh, after that

point, like, so you have her, did she,

522

:

was she taken into custody at that

time or how did that process work out?

523

:

Daniel Ettinger: She was, I'm

pretty sure they took her in to

524

:

do a mental health hold so police

officers can make that determination.

525

:

And she was, she was taken

into custody and charges were

526

:

later filed for the hoarding.

527

:

It wasn't filed immediately.

528

:

Uh, it was filed later

on by a police detective.

529

:

That's just how the Denver city operates.

530

:

And so any, any type of felony or

misdemeanor had to be written by

531

:

a sworn police officer in Denver

532

:

DrG: Did anybody evaluate the dead

dogs and figure out what they died of.

533

:

Daniel Ettinger: We did, we said,

I don't think we sent all 12.

534

:

I don't think we sent all 12 for

necropsies, but we did send a few

535

:

to the state laboratory, Colorado

state actually has a necropsy lab.

536

:

We sent them there.

537

:

And I can't recall the cause

of death, but it may have been

538

:

just, you know, due to age.

539

:

DrG: What were the conditions of

the dogs that were alive as far

540

:

as, you know, their overall health?

541

:

Daniel Ettinger: You know, outside of

their coats being extremely unkempt,

542

:

they were actually in pretty good shape.

543

:

Like, Body condition

score was pretty good.

544

:

I don't recall having a dog that was

anything lower than probably a four.

545

:

I mean, there may have been a three.

546

:

Nothing sticks out to me that

there was in the case, though, I

547

:

think they were all outside of the

Giardia and outside of their coats.

548

:

In that condition, they were okay.

549

:

I think they did find some things

when they did some exploratory

550

:

surgery, but nothing that was,

like, pretty apparent to us.

551

:

DrG: So what was she

ultimately charged with?

552

:

Daniel Ettinger: So she was

charged initially with felony

553

:

animal cruelty due to the dead

dogs being found in the freezer.

554

:

And then the case was reduced down

to some misdemeanor animal cruelty.

555

:

DrG: And that would be just for the, the,

the live dogs that were living in filth?

556

:

Daniel Ettinger: Yeah, and I

think, like, ultimately too

557

:

is, like, showing some grace.

558

:

Or mercy in these situations,

like, do we really need to charge

559

:

her for 35 counts or 37 counts?

560

:

Whatever it may be.

561

:

Right?

562

:

Like, the idea you kind of talked about

it understanding the psyche of animal

563

:

hoarders, like, we want to make sure that

we're getting the right type of justice.

564

:

So, if this goes to goes to a

jury trial, and the jury sees

565

:

that, okay, there were 35 dogs.

566

:

But we only charged six

counts of misdemeanor cruelty.

567

:

And then are, you know,

like, that looks reasonable.

568

:

And we can explain why we only

charge six counts in that case.

569

:

Right?

570

:

So, like, we're not overdoing it though.

571

:

I would argue that 35 counts would

have been appropriate because all

572

:

those dogs were being neglected.

573

:

DrG: People get really worked up

because this are emotional cases, right?

574

:

There are animals that are suffering

and people start getting like, you

575

:

know Eye for an eye and let's burn

them and let's starve them and let's

576

:

do to them what they did to these dogs

And a lot of people don't realize that

577

:

this is a mental health disease like

true hoarding Is actually in the DSM

578

:

manual for mental health disorders.

579

:

Uh, so we can, I guess, talk a little bit

about the, like you brought up already

580

:

about the different types of hoarders.

581

:

Do you want to go ahead and talk

about the different types of

582

:

hoarders and kind of where, um, Ms.

583

:

Puzak falls in inside of that?

584

:

Daniel Ettinger: Yeah, I mean, when you

look at we'll start with the exploiter.

585

:

So typically an exploiter

hoarder, I like to say, like.

586

:

The easiest way to describe an exploiter

would be like, maybe a puppy mill, right?

587

:

Somebody who has an abundance of animals,

the living conditions are not great.

588

:

Right?

589

:

And their whole goal is to really use

that animal to, you know, make money

590

:

from and in that situation, right?

591

:

An exploiter may be really difficult

to work with in the aspects of, like.

592

:

Of getting them to comply and I

don't think this is my personally

593

:

personal professional opinion.

594

:

I don't think we should be giving

any hoarder a break and being like,

595

:

just clean it up because the reality

is they're just going to reoffend.

596

:

Like, that is, that is science, I guess,

or data, data supported hoarders will

597

:

reoffend without any intervention.

598

:

And so you start with

your exploiters, right?

599

:

And then you're the overwhelmed

caregiver may be like.

600

:

They didn't intend to have all

these puppies or cats, right?

601

:

Maybe they had 2 cats, 2 or 3 cats or

2 or 3 dogs and never got them fixed.

602

:

And then they started to reproduce

in the home and they don't want

603

:

to give them away or just don't

have the ability to to understand

604

:

that they need to give them away.

605

:

And they just start accruing do

through, like, through their own.

606

:

Inability to spay or neuter.

607

:

So over a longer period of time, they

become overwhelmed with all these animals.

608

:

And then you have your

rescue hoarders that really.

609

:

Look for animals in certain ways,

because they don't think that

610

:

anybody else can care for them.

611

:

That's the way that they can and they

don't trust animal shelters or they don't

612

:

trust other other rescues because they

believe that again, they're the only ones

613

:

that can provide the care that they need.

614

:

And so, as you look at those 3 kind

of from an overview perspective,

615

:

it was in my opinion that Marlene.

616

:

Was kind of all three in some aspects.

617

:

If you understand the case, she was

an exploiter from the aspects of,

618

:

uh, people entrusted her with these

French bulldogs to show at AKC dog show

619

:

events so they could earn, you know,

Earn awards placements in order to

620

:

sell their puppies at a higher cost.

621

:

Right?

622

:

So when you have that now, I don't

have any evidence of that there.

623

:

We didn't dig that deep.

624

:

But from what I understood of the

case, I knew that she did have

625

:

some dogs from known breeders

and then you have your rescuer,

626

:

which I think was her main Avenue.

627

:

I think she.

628

:

Truly felt like she was the only one that

could care for these French bulldogs.

629

:

And in fact, she was infatuated with

French bulldogs, every single photo.

630

:

And there were multiple pieces

of artwork and photos throughout

631

:

her house were French bulldogs.

632

:

So that was really interesting.

633

:

And, and then she was overwhelmed.

634

:

She wasn't able to provide

the care necessary.

635

:

to one person care for 35 live animals.

636

:

It's almost impossible.

637

:

Live dogs with Giardia.

638

:

So I actually think in some cases you

can have someone that is just one.

639

:

But I really think the main two

were overwhelmed and rescuer.

640

:

And then she had a little

element of the exploiter as well.

641

:

DrG: And I have seen cases

that that do cross over.

642

:

Um, I worked a case in Athens County

where the woman was a rescue hoarder.

643

:

She did not want to give the animals

to anybody because she thought that she

644

:

was the best to care for them, but she

was also breeding them and selling them.

645

:

So she had a little bit of that

exploiter hoarder and that she

646

:

was selling them to make money.

647

:

However, she also, the, the adults,

she did not want to relinquish them

648

:

because she thought that she was the

only one to, to take care of them.

649

:

So, you know, I think that there's a lot

of, of research and studies still needed.

650

:

For hoarders, because as I mentioned,

I mean, they, they will, they will

651

:

reoffend because currently I don't

know how, you know, exactly how the

652

:

laws are in other states, but here in

Ohio, it's not, it's not very strong.

653

:

So mental health evaluations

are not required.

654

:

They're up to the judge if they want

to do it or not, and I don't think that

655

:

they're even followed very properly.

656

:

So, you take somebody like that, and you

give them fees and fines, and maybe you

657

:

give them 30 days in jail or whatever,

which usually gets suspended anyway,

658

:

and There, there's nothing being done

to keep them from doing it again, right?

659

:

It's, it's a mental health disease.

660

:

You don't take somebody that has any

other kind of mental health disease and

661

:

you, you know, lock them up for 30 days

and then say, okay, you're schizophrenic.

662

:

We're going to put you in jail for

30 days and then you're going to

663

:

come out and you're not going to

be schizophrenic anymore, right?

664

:

That's not how that works.

665

:

It's like, we have to, we have to figure

out how to, how to work with this.

666

:

So, in, in her case, she was mandated

mental health evaluation though, right?

667

:

And, uh, what, what came

about from all of that?

668

:

Daniel Ettinger: Yeah, so in Colorado,

upon sentencing, so upon any guilty or

669

:

plea agreement for animal cruelty or

neglect, The mental health evaluation is

670

:

it's actually required per state statute.

671

:

However, though it's required, it doesn't

mean that it's actually getting done.

672

:

Right?

673

:

Which is interesting.

674

:

I actually was an expert witness on a

case and I mentioned that to the defense.

675

:

That they, you know, because

of X, Y, and Z, uh, mental

676

:

health evaluation was required.

677

:

And that was, uh, it was, it just

was interesting how that all went.

678

:

I'll just leave that there.

679

:

But, um, with Marlene, what

I believe the outcome was.

680

:

If I can recall correctly,

she took a plea agreement.

681

:

For 2 years of, I think, probation with

mental health treatment and evaluate

682

:

or evaluation and treatment and then no

animal ownership for that 2 year period.

683

:

And then she also was required to

allow for and basically what we

684

:

would call a 4th amendment waiver.

685

:

So she allowed animal control or law

enforcement to enter her house during

686

:

any normal kind of timeframe, like,

not 2 in the morning, but maybe, you

687

:

know, 4 in the afternoon on a Saturday.

688

:

She wouldn't know, but we would come

and do an inspection to ensure that

689

:

she did not have any animals or she

was not violating the court order.

690

:

DrG: And that's, I mean, I just think

that that is super important, right?

691

:

Because, again, it's kind of, we

want to, we already took care of

692

:

the animals that were suffering.

693

:

And that we're trying to prevent issues

with future animals, but in the end,

694

:

also, we're trying to help her because

that's where, where it all lies.

695

:

If we don't help her with her

condition, with her potential possible

696

:

mental health condition, then we're

not really doing anything, right?

697

:

Daniel Ettinger: Correct.

698

:

Correct.

699

:

DrG: So, um, I have been, I have

been creeping on her, and from what

700

:

I have seen, it looks like she has

been somewhat staying out of trouble.

701

:

It doesn't look like she's

been having any issues.

702

:

So it makes me feel hopeful about the

fact that mental health evaluations

703

:

and treatments can be the, the answer

to recidivism in hoarding cases.

704

:

Daniel Ettinger: So, I'll

take it 1 step forward.

705

:

I actually reached out to Marlene,

probably 3 months ago, 2 months

706

:

ago, and I said, hey, like, 1st, I,

you know, I kind of really took a,

707

:

I think a compassionate approach.

708

:

I mean, she was very, polite to

her responses, but I just said,

709

:

Hey, Marlene, my name is Daniel.

710

:

I was the officer who, um,

711

:

took your dog that day.

712

:

I don't know how I said it, but,

you know, um, but I was wondering if

713

:

you'd be open or willing to tell your

side of the story on our podcast.

714

:

And we went back and forth with a

few, you know, Q and a, uh, and she

715

:

basically said she'd think about it.

716

:

And I just, I dropped it there.

717

:

I didn't, um, I haven't, I

haven't heard from her since.

718

:

And I haven't, I'm not

going to reach back out.

719

:

I'm going to, you know, if

she's interested, she'll tell

720

:

us that she's interested.

721

:

But I think that would be such a neat case

study to hear it from her view viewpoint

722

:

and not that we want to make fun of her

or exploit her or anything like that.

723

:

I just want her to have an opportunity

to tell her side of the story because

724

:

I'm sure it's going to be different

from from our side of the story

725

:

and to give her that that platform.

726

:

So that was that was

interesting to do that.

727

:

I thought about it for a while

before I even messaged her.

728

:

To be honest, I thought about it.

729

:

And then I said, you know, let

me see if she's on social media.

730

:

She was and she responded pretty

quickly and everything was,

731

:

was pretty cool in that regard.

732

:

But as I mentioned, we left it at that.

733

:

DrG: Yeah, I'm sure that

it's I mean, it's got to be.

734

:

a dark time for her, especially if

she has moved on and been able to,

735

:

to get her life together and stuff.

736

:

It's gotta be somewhat difficult to

go back to that, but I think it would

737

:

be great for her to tell her story,

especially if she, if she is no longer

738

:

finding that urge to hoard animals,

because so much can be learned from that.

739

:

You know, again, I'm a,

I'm a big proponent of.

740

:

Uh, I say fees and fines in jail if

somebody is actually committing animal

741

:

cruelty, if somebody is an animal.

742

:

However, in these cases of animal

hoarding, there's so much to be

743

:

done to help these individuals.

744

:

Because I just see case after case

after case that three months, six

745

:

months later, they're back to hoarding.

746

:

And having a case where we can say,

you know, this person was in this

747

:

trouble, this is what happened.

748

:

This is how it was addressed and look

where she's at, like she's the 1%.

749

:

If she is rehabilitated, she's

the 1 percent because from the

750

:

statistics, it's 99 percent recidivism.

751

:

It would be amazing to

hear from her, kind of

752

:

how things worked out.

753

:

Daniel Ettinger: Yeah, maybe she

can be also like a mentor for

754

:

others who are dealing with that.

755

:

And she, you know, she

can potentially help them.

756

:

.

DrG: Another kind of side thing of this is you mentioned about the, you know,

757

:

she was training and that kind of stuff.

758

:

So I know that there were some

individuals that came up and said that.

759

:

Some of those dogs were not hers, that

they actually gave her the dogs for her

760

:

to board and train and show for them.

761

:

So what was the, what

was the deal with those?

762

:

Daniel Ettinger: Before we even get to

that, I think it's important to know that

763

:

like it was, it was an interesting thing.

764

:

So we elected to do an adoption event

of these dogs in the same city and

765

:

community where we took them from,

and that was an extreme just mistake.

766

:

A huge mistake.

767

:

Uh, I'm all for getting animals out

of a bad situation, and I'm all for

768

:

trying to get animals from a bad

situation into a good situation, but

769

:

I think there's a level of compassion

and courtesy to not turn around

770

:

and push somebody's face into it.

771

:

While you're like, basically saying,

you can't have these animals, but

772

:

we're going to give them to all these

other people and then promote it.

773

:

I think the appropriate thing

to do there would have been to,

774

:

they're French bulldogs, bro.

775

:

Like, you could have worked with any

rescue group throughout the country

776

:

and they would have taken them, right?

777

:

Right.

778

:

And so, I thought that was a

little greedy and selfish of us.

779

:

At that time to do that, and it backfired.

780

:

It backfired because now once we

promoted it, all these alleged owners

781

:

came out of everywhere saying, well,

wait, we only gave her that dog to show.

782

:

We didn't give her that dog to keep right.

783

:

And so unfortunately for us at that time.

784

:

We already did some exploratory

surgeries and spaying and

785

:

neutering and people were livid.

786

:

DrG: Yeah.

787

:

That's what I saw is that some

of these people were complaining.

788

:

There were from what, from the

news that I saw that I read, it

789

:

said that there were four owners.

790

:

uh, suing over about 10 dogs saying

that they were spayed and neutered.

791

:

And then, so those dogs were no

longer valuable to them because

792

:

they were supposed to be shown and

bred and, you know, puppies sold.

793

:

And then they said that there were

unnecessary and experimental quote

794

:

unquote procedures, which some of

the procedures, as I looked at it, it

795

:

was nares resection for some of these

dogs, which It is a known problem with

796

:

French bulldogs that they can't breathe

because their nose are just shut down.

797

:

Um, so it's not really

unnecessary and experimental.

798

:

That seemed to be a little bit of

a reach by the defense attorneys.

799

:

But just overall, the fact that

they were, they were complaining

800

:

about, you know, yeah, these are

our dogs, these are our proof of

801

:

ownership, and we want our dogs back.

802

:

And then that kind of held these

poor dogs in some legal limbo.

803

:

Daniel Ettinger: It did.

804

:

And, you know, I wish I had

more information on that case.

805

:

Once it went to a lawsuit against the

department that really resided with

806

:

the director and then some of the

executives within the Department of

807

:

Public Health and some of the attorneys.

808

:

So we weren't privy to what

was going on at that point.

809

:

Uh, we just, you know, pretty

much once the case was brought

810

:

back and we brought the animals in

and did all of our documentation

811

:

in case prep, the case was then.

812

:

We were done with it.

813

:

So

814

:

DrG: Yeah, just really important,

you know, to for for everybody,

815

:

including shelters and rescues to

understand kind of what the laws are.

816

:

And then what, what due process is trying

to figure out who these animals belong to

817

:

and everything because I saw, you know,

from, from you guys standpoint, it looked

818

:

like everything that was done properly.

819

:

As far as the animals were taken from her

house, she surrendered all the animals.

820

:

So everything up to that

point was done correctly.

821

:

So after that, it was just, it was just

kind of paperwork, a paperwork disaster.

822

:

It looks like that held these dogs

from being able to find their homes.

823

:

Daniel Ettinger: It was and, if there

was ever a point where ownership

824

:

was questioned, like she just, let's

say like when we were talking to

825

:

her and establishing ownership, I

mean, like as mentioned, she knew

826

:

every single name of those dogs,

but if she knew it at one point said

827

:

like, you know, this one belongs to.

828

:

Whoever Luann Strickland, and that's

actually another hoarding case.

829

:

That's crazy that I brought that up.

830

:

We can talk about that one day.

831

:

She had over 400 animals.

832

:

It's a wild case in Colorado.

833

:

Um, anyway, um, yeah, you

can Google Luann Strickland.

834

:

That's a, but let's say

she did say that they.

835

:

Belong to somebody else.

836

:

We would have paused, right?

837

:

We would have said like,

okay, let's investigate that.

838

:

No.

839

:

Oh, here's here's what's crazy, too.

840

:

I remember this.

841

:

So some of those animals had microchips

and when we, when we ran them, none

842

:

of them are registered and then after

they made these allegations that

843

:

they were theirs, they went back in

and changed the microchip to match

844

:

the owner or the alleged owner.

845

:

So it's kind of kind of sneaky

stuff that they were doing.

846

:

DrG: Yeah, I saw that because I

thought, you know, they were saying

847

:

like, Oh yeah, it was her microchips.

848

:

Clearly it's our dogs and no, we

didn't, we didn't register until

849

:

after the fact because we forgot.

850

:

No, like most breeders like

that will microchip their dogs.

851

:

As soon as, you know, they're

old enough to get microchip.

852

:

So, just the fact that they

were microchip doesn't mean

853

:

that they were their property.

854

:

It just means that they were a dog.

855

:

That one of the, one of the people also

said, Yeah, we have genetic testing that

856

:

can show that that dog is from our litter.

857

:

Right, but you could have sold the dog.

858

:

You could have given the dog away.

859

:

That doesn't really mean

that you own these dogs.

860

:

Right.

861

:

I like, uh, something about possession

being nine tenths of the law.

862

:

These people are saying, uh, this

is my dog and I love my dog and I.

863

:

You know, cared for my dog but from what I

read, a lot of these people said, well, I

864

:

met her but I never saw where she was at.

865

:

Like, they did not do their due

diligence in making sure where

866

:

these dogs were gonna be kept at.

867

:

Like, they were just looking at the

dogs being trained and shown and then

868

:

Making profit off them and their babies.

869

:

Daniel Ettinger: Yeah, so, I mean,

I was, it was a really interesting

870

:

case from the aspects of, like, all

the different elements that it met.

871

:

It was, um, it was a great learning

experience, something that I value

872

:

and, you know, I, I really think that

as we continue to move forward in this

873

:

profession, that we can share some

of these things and learn from it for

874

:

other, other officers and other agencies

throughout the country or world.

875

:

DrG: Nothing ever, ever

truly goes exactly to plan.

876

:

Uh, a lot of the cases that I work

with, especially with like national

877

:

organizations and stuff, they're like,

this is our plan A, and then this is

878

:

our plan B, C, D, E, and F, right?

879

:

Because you just never know what exactly

you're going to, you're going to find out.

880

:

Uh, but as long as we do

our best and learn from it.

881

:

then I think that there's,

there's something to be gained.

882

:

Daniel Ettinger: Absolutely.

883

:

Absolutely.

884

:

I would completely agree with that.

885

:

DrG: Is there anything else about

this case that you think that

886

:

we've missed or that we need to

bring up to educate our listeners?

887

:

Daniel Ettinger: I think it's

just important to, for me,

888

:

and to reiterate where I'm at.

889

:

Hindsight, obviously being 2020, like I

would not have Gone about it as quickly

890

:

as I did now, like, as I'm sitting now,

if I got a case presented that way, I

891

:

would do my due diligence and try to

really figure out the best approach.

892

:

Um, not that we did anything with you.

893

:

Yeah, yeah, I mean, absolutely.

894

:

Like, not that we did

anything wrong on day 1.

895

:

I mean, we were able to really document

the scene and get the animals and do

896

:

all the things, but I think we could

have just gone about it in a better way.

897

:

I mean, we still got the outcome that we.

898

:

Desired and that was the mental

health eval and treatment and you

899

:

know, the no animal ownership for a

period of time and certain things.

900

:

So, I mean, at the end, like the outcome

was still beneficial to the animals

901

:

and I think beneficial to miss Puzak

really, but I would have liked to have

902

:

gone into the case a little differently.

903

:

DrG: It's so important to, to plan

everything, um, you know, thoroughly

904

:

and from a, from a veterinarian

standpoint, I get so many cases that I

905

:

am asked to consult way after the fact

and it's like, well, if we had done

906

:

this different, that different, then

that would have built a better case.

907

:

And this case, you know, I, I

think that it was beneficial, the

908

:

fact that she was cooperative.

909

:

Because it could have gone

really, really wrong potentially.

910

:

Um, so, you know, just taking, taking

your time, you have 10 days, figuring

911

:

it out and, and taking your time.

912

:

Daniel Ettinger: Absolutely.

913

:

And one thing that I forgot to mention,

which is, well, it's specific to

914

:

Colorado, and it may be in other states

is Colorado has what's called a cost of

915

:

care statute, the cost of care paperwork.

916

:

So, the statute is part of the

animal cruelty, animal neglect

917

:

law, and it actually can extend

to dangerous animals as well.

918

:

I believe, wait a second, that

might be on the city level.

919

:

So don't quote me on

that on the state level.

920

:

It's a, it's part of the animal

cruelty or neglect on the city level.

921

:

Ours also went to any animal involved

in dangerous dog behavior too.

922

:

But the point of it is this, this

paperwork that's partly law basically

923

:

says that you, as the pet owner.

924

:

Animal owner have 10 days from the

impoundment to appeal the impoundment.

925

:

Or if you don't appeal the impoundment,

you have 10 days to pay what's

926

:

called the cost of care for 30 days.

927

:

So you have to pay that first 30 days

within 10 days if you fail to do either.

928

:

So if you fail to do the cost of

care, paperwork, or you fail to

929

:

do the appeal or pay the the fee.

930

:

The animal then becomes a property of

the city and I think she surrendered

931

:

all of them though, if I'm not mistaken.

932

:

So I don't think she even did the

paperwork, she just surrendered ownership.

933

:

DrG: Yeah, from what I read, it looks like

she surrendered them almost immediately.

934

:

Yeah.

935

:

And it makes you wonder what part

of that is the overwhelmed caregiver

936

:

thinking that I finally have some, you

know, I, it's no longer my problem.

937

:

It's not, it's no longer my issue, right?

938

:

Whereas a rescuer hoarder, I've

worked with, uh, in cases with

939

:

rescuer hoarders that they do not

give up ownership of those dogs

940

:

all the way up to the court date.

941

:

Because again, they think that they're the

only ones that take care of those dogs.

942

:

Whereas the overwhelmed

caregivers are, are like, Hey,

943

:

you have a place for them to go.

944

:

Fantastic.

945

:

Let's, let's get them out of here because

I can't take care of this anymore.

946

:

Daniel Ettinger: Totally.

947

:

Totally.

948

:

Also, I'm glad the listeners

can't see my face because my

949

:

knee, man, it's so much pain.

950

:

Um, I'm like rocking back and

forth and making weird faces.

951

:

So I appreciate you being

patient with me on this episode.

952

:

And I probably don't sound like my normal

self just because I've been so tired

953

:

lately, but I'm glad we could have.

954

:

I'm glad we could get this

this information out there.

955

:

DrG: No, I'm, I'm really glad that

you had this case to share with us

956

:

because again, I'm, I'm really into

animal hoarding and I think that we

957

:

need to do so much better for the

animals and for the, and for the people.

958

:

So thank you so very

much for sharing this.

959

:

And uh, I mean, before we leave,

how about you plug your cast, man?

960

:

Daniel Ettinger: So we are

myself and Ashley Bishop.

961

:

They are the hosts of the

animal control report.

962

:

The animal control report podcast

is available everywhere and

963

:

anywhere you listen to podcasts.

964

:

It's also some of the episodes,

not all, we're trying to get

965

:

more and more up on YouTube.

966

:

So we're doing video casts as well.

967

:

Uh, you can go to our

website, keep it humane.

968

:

com.

969

:

What else do we got going on?

970

:

The socials, the animal

control report on Facebook.

971

:

Keep it humane on Facebook

and Instagram as well.

972

:

So that's a good one to follow.

973

:

And yeah, that's kind of it.

974

:

DrG: Cool.

975

:

And we're all part of the

keep it humane network.

976

:

So even better,

977

:

Daniel Ettinger: even better.

978

:

Cool.

979

:

Thanks Dr.

980

:

G.

981

:

No

982

:

DrG: problem.

983

:

Thank you so much for,

for being here and for.

984

:

Uh, sharing this case again, I think that

it's a really great case forensic wise

985

:

from from all different perspectives.

986

:

So I really appreciate you and we'll

have to talk about that other hoarding

987

:

case with 400 plus animals at some point.

988

:

Daniel Ettinger: Well, let's

before you go, let's just tease it

989

:

because Lou Ann Strickland was the

wife of a Colorado state senator.

990

:

I believe he was either a senator or

representative and she was actually

991

:

very impactful in a couple of things

in legislation when it came to animals

992

:

in Colorado, but the, the dark side of

her is she had property out probably

993

:

about 45 minutes to an hour east of

Denver and this place was just, it was.

994

:

A nightmare and if you when you read about

it, when you Google it, you'll see they

995

:

eventually after years of dealing with

her, they eventually were able to get a

996

:

search warrant in conjunction with, like,

the state of Colorado, some of those

997

:

agencies and start to remove the dog.

998

:

So she since past, um, they were

both kind of elderly towards,

999

:

you know, towards some of the.

:

00:57:28,601 --> 00:57:33,111

I guess larger numbers of animals,

but that was a, that was definitely a

:

00:57:33,121 --> 00:57:36,261

rescuer and overwhelm caregiver for sure.

:

00:57:36,784 --> 00:57:40,714

DrG: Well, yeah, I definitely want to

talk about that in a future episode

:

00:57:40,794 --> 00:57:42,194

because that sounds , pretty wild.

:

00:57:42,954 --> 00:57:43,584

Oh, it's wild.

:

00:57:44,584 --> 00:57:44,894

Yeah.

:

00:57:45,794 --> 00:57:47,244

Well, thank you so much.

:

00:57:47,394 --> 00:57:48,454

Take care.

:

00:57:48,744 --> 00:57:49,544

Take care of that knee.

:

00:57:50,254 --> 00:57:51,374

And we appreciate you.

:

00:57:51,954 --> 00:57:54,564

And for everybody that's

listening, thank you for listening.

:

00:57:54,564 --> 00:57:55,334

Thank you for caring.

:

00:57:56,864 --> 00:57:57,714

Keep it humane, main.

:

00:57:59,014 --> 00:57:59,634

That's right.

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About the Podcast

The Animal Welfare Junction
Veterinary Forensics
The Animal Welfare Junction is a podcast developed to bring awareness to different topics in animal welfare. The host, Michelle Gonzalez (Dr. G) is a veterinarian who provides affordable veterinary care in the State of Ohio, and also a Forensic Veterinarian helping with the investigation and prosecution of cases of animal cruelty and neglect.
The topics presented are based on the experiences of Dr. G and our guests and include discussions about real cases, humane projects, and legal issues that affect animals and the community. Due to the nature of the discussion, listener discretion is advised as some topics may be too strong for some listeners.

About your host

Profile picture for Alba Gonzalez

Alba Gonzalez

Michelle González (DrG) was born and raised in Puerto Rico. Her passion growing up was to become a veterinarian. She obtained a B.S. in Zoology at Michigan State University and the Doctor of Veterinary Medicine degree at The Ohio State University, followed by a 1-yr Internship in Medicine, Surgery, Emergency and Critical Care at the University of Missouri-Columbia. In 2006 she founded the Rascal Unit, a mobile clinic offering accesible and affordable sterilization, and wellness services throughout the State of Ohio.
Dr. G is involved in many aspects of companion veterinary medicine including education, shelter assistance and help to animals that are victims of cruelty and neglect.
DrG completed a Master’s degree in Veterinary Forensics from the University of Florida and a Master’s in Forensic Psychology from Southern New Hampshire University. She is currently enrolled at the University of Florida Forensic Science program. She assists Humane organizations and animal control officers in the investigation, evaluation, and prosecution of cases of animal cruelty and neglect.