Episode 27

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Published on:

6th Oct 2023

Affordable Veterinary Care with Dr. Jeff Young

Dr. Jeff Young is the founder of Planned Pethood International, but many know him as Dr. Jeff, Rocky Mountain Vet. His passion for helping animals and their caretakers as well as educating the next generation of veterinarians is clear. Join us for a 45-minute ride into many topics affecting pet care, affordability, and the veterinary profession. We discuss compassionate care, technician utilization and compensation, compassion fatigue, the human-animal bond, and why the veterinary field has shifted so much in the last decades. This is an episode for everyone, pet owners, advocates, and those in the profession.

If you enjoy our content and want to help us reach more animal advocates, please like, rate and share our episode. Together we make a big difference for animals everywhere.

Mentioned in this episode:

Keep it Humane Podcast Network

The Animal Welfare Junction is part of the Keep It Humane Podcast Network. Visit keepithumane.com/podcastnetwork to find us and our amazing animal welfare podcast partners.

Transcript
DrG:

Hi, and welcome to the Animal Welfare Junction.

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This is your host, Dr.

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G, and our music is written

and produced by Mike Sullivan.

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Today, we have a very special

guest from Colorado, Dr.

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Jeff Young, founder of Planned

Parenthood International.

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Welcome, Dr.

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Jeff.

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Thank you so much for being here.

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Dr. Jeff Young: Thank you for

having me and hopefully we can

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have some good discussions today.

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DrG: I think so.

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I think we're very like

minded individuals.

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, but before we get started, how about

you let our listeners know about you?

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Where you started and what brought

you to where you are today?

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Dr. Jeff Young: Yeah, I've made a

lot of major changes in my life.

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When I went to vet school, I was a hunter

and fisherman and, um, and I, you know,

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my idea of a, of a, of a vegetable would

be a tomato and a triple hamburger.

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Uh, in vet school taught me a lot

about animals that I didn't know.

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And in the end, I also worked

animal control and it really

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changed my perspective on animals

and, and the planet in general.

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Um.

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I think work in animal control gave me a

real perspective on cruelty and neglect.

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So from the beginning at that time

when I graduated:

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State University, we were killing

something like 24 to 26 million dogs

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and cats a year in this country.

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Now we're down to anywhere from 1

million to 4 to 6 million depending

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on who you want to believe.

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And I think a lot of animals

are euthanized at veterinary

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hospitals that aren't counted

because of economic euthanasia.

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But No question society's

become more sophisticated.

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We are aware of spay neuter.

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Uh, but in the end, I think the number

one issue with overpopulation comes back

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to finances more than anything else.

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So I think that's what's always driven me.

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Um, I ran a for profit for years.

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We always made money, but we always

were lower than everybody else.

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And because of the TV show, Dr.

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Jeff Rocky Mountain Vet.

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We started getting just inundated

with people from all over.

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So at that, at that point, it was like

three years ago, we became a hundred

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percent nonprofit, um, and it's been

harder as a nonprofit, quite frankly,

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as, as a for profit, in all honesty,

because everybody begs you all the time,

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you know, and you want to try to, and

I'm kind of a bleeding heart liberal,

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be honest, and I, you know, it's really

hard to say no to people, you know.

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Um, but we do our best and, uh,

we've moved up to Conifer, Colorado.

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We have, I have associated with

clinics all around the world.

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I've been to 46 countries, lectured

or done surgery in 46 countries.

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Um, so, and I, and I still think

teaching is the most important thing.

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This new facility we're in

is a, is basically a teaching

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hospital for vet students.

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Right now we have, uh, We've worked I

think with seven universities so far.

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They've sent us kids.

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Uh, Ohio State's going to be, I just

got a young lady coming up from Ohio

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State, um, next month I believe.

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That's my first Ohio State, uh, person.

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So, but, uh, I think if I can pass on

some kind of basic Hands on knowledge

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and get them to do some basic surgery.

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Cause surgery is surgery.

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I mean, you know, to get good,

everybody, I get people come in

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and want to be a great surgeon

while it takes time, you just don't

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become a good surgeon overnight.

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You know, some people have more

talent than others, but in the end,

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it's about handling tissue and it can

be repetitious as spay and neuter.

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At some point you just realize

you're a decent surgeon.

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And I really do believe that, you

know, and I don't know where it was

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for me, but at this point in my career.

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I'm not afraid of any soft tissue surgery.

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When I do, you know, PDAs and

persistent right aortic arches, uh,

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take lung lobes out, things like that.

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I mean, there's virtually nothing

soft tissue wise that scares me.

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Um, and that, but that just comes from

years of practice and doing surgery,

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you know, uh, so I feel very lucky and,

uh, animal planet was one of those two

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edged swords, you know, cause it, it

brought all this national attention,

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but, you know, the traditional vets

don't necessarily like what I do.

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Uh, and having said that.

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All these people came in from all

over and we really got inundated.

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It was hard to keep up, but, uh, uh, in

the end, I've always loved what I do.

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And my goal has always been to try to

help, especially like retired individuals,

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single moms, you know, the people in

society that really need the most help.

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And, uh, And that's what we're open for

and hopefully we can train some more

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vet students and get them interested in

the same thing, you know, and I will say

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I think there's been a shift, I think,

kind of, before COVID and kind of during

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COVID, most of the students were not that

interested in doing low cost or nonprofit

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stuff and I'm just in the last year or

so I'm having more and more students.

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You seem to be interested

in that, and we need that.

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We're short, as you know, we're

shorthanded, uh, so and really

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helping out people, I think

we can make a real difference.

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DrG: I 100 percent agree, and I'm so

glad that you're doing the education

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bit, because we have been doing a lot

of mentorships and externships as well,

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because you have to give these students

like they're hungry for education, right?

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Like they just got into vet school.

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It's the perfect time to get

them in and to get them excited

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when they, when there's really

still in the exciting phase.

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And, and yeah, teaching them what's

available and what's out there.

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I think one of the things that,

you know, I too love what I do.

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I love my job.

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There isn't one day that I

I wish I was something else.

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And I think part of that is that I

am doing something that benefits the

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community and everything, but also makes

me feel better about what I'm doing.

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Right.

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And, and I think that a lot of the

problems that we're having right now

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with compassion fatigue and such.

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Come about from people say no, that

they can't afford something, having to

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euthanize their animals because they don't

have any, any money, uh, just there's

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not that, that excitement in general

practice as it has kind of become, right?

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So I think that that if we can get these

students motivated and, and empower

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them to do community service, basically,

that it's going to make them feel

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better and potentially decrease that

compassion fatigue that they're feeling.

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No,

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Dr. Jeff Young: I think part of the

problem is, and it's been a gradual

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thing, but veterinarians have never

been necessarily rich per se, but we've

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always had made a good living and we were

very well respected in the community.

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And I've seen that just go down the tubes

in that, you know, most people say, well,

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just in it for the money, you know, um,

and part of that is to say Wall Street and

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I'm, I'm a red, white and blue American.

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I believe in competition, but

when you get Wall Street involved.

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You know, and, and basically something

like 70 percent of private practices

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now are, is owned by big companies, you

know, and the problem with that is the

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moment you do that, well, your, your

shareholders want money, you know, and

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you have a tier system of bureaucrats

when you said the vets, they're working.

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So all of a sudden you have to double,

triple, quadruple your price to be able

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to make those profit margins, you know,

and, and, you know, just assume for

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a second they're in it for the money.

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And I understand that there's

nothing wrong with making money.

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But at the same time, we've just

gone so far overboard with it.

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You know what I mean?

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Once, once wall street figured out

that vets are great investments and

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there's always going to be money there.

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Um, the question is, will

there always be money there?

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Because we're basically pricing

ourselves right out of the

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market, you know, and we're really

catering, if you look at the last.

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three decades, we actually serve a

smaller percentage of animals in America.

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There's more animals in America.

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Don't get me wrong.

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And that's, that's our busy,

but we actually serve a smaller

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percentage than we ever have, you

know, which makes no sense to me.

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Um, because this is the richest

nation on earth and we have all these

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talented people out there, but yet

we're turning people away because they

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just can't afford things, you know,

and it just seems to me to be criminal.

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DrG: Yeah, I have seen that as well.

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And it's kind of that idea of, well, we

can raise the price and we're going to

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lose some clients, but the ones that stay

are going to be able to make us money.

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And that's kind of a

bad mentality to have.

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We want to help the many

rather than the few.

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At least I know that I do.

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And I am sure that you do as well.

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Like we, we have this, this gift

of being able to help animals.

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So why not help as many as

we can rather than limiting

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ourselves to six patients a day?

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Dr. Jeff Young: I don't want to be so

jaded to where I believe students don't

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care, people, the graduates or people

that are out there in practice don't

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care, necessarily care about animals.

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But you know, that's not a

requirement to get in vet school.

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And the reality of it is, you know, we're,

we're selected because we're kind of

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science oriented and I kind of get that.

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Uh, I think the one thing that's

driven compassion into, a little

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bit of compassion that's in the

veterinary industry is, is when

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89, my class was the first class

to have more, Or females and males.

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And as we have more and more females

come into the profession or more

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compassion has come into the profession.

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Um, but as you say, you know, like

if, if so many of the main, the

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big facilities are owned by men or

corporations, as the young women come in.

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They're having to send animals away, or

they're having to euthanize animals, and

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that's, you know, that just drives you, I

mean, if they have any compassion at all,

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well, think what that does to the soul,

you know, uh, and I understand why people

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get burned out, or commit suicide, or,

you know, go turn to drugs, or drinking,

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you know, uh, because this, this is, this

is a hard profession right now, and, uh,

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I don't know, it's kept me sane, quite

frankly, for the last 34 years, other

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than I just, I've always believed in what

I'm doing, you know, and I think that's

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the key, you have to find something

you truly believe in, and like you say,

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you're connecting with your community,

um, you know, and you're connecting

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with people, and, and the animals, and,

and I don't, I don't, I don't know, I

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just can't imagine a better life, in

all honesty, there's a lot of sadness

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in it too, don't get me wrong, but, you

know, I feel like we do our part to try

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to make as much happiness as we can.

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Thank you.

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Yeah,

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DrG: it, and, and it's also

about surrounding ourselves by

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like-minded individuals, right?

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'cause I have technicians that have

been with me for a really long time

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because this is not a job, right?

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A job, right?

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They can get a job anywhere.

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But this is more like a, a mission

and everybody, we're all so

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tired at the end of every day.

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And we're doing, you know, we, we go

out on our trucks, we drive about an

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hour and a half, two hours to these

locations, do 30 to 50 surgeries,

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and then have the same drive back.

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So we are physically exhausted, but

mentally feeling so great about it.

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Right?

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So I think that that, that makes

all the difference in the world,

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you know, and, and then we also have

to pay our, our employees properly

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because we cannot expect people

to do this much work for free.

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I mean, there has to be, there has to be

compensation for people that are, that

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are doing so well and doing so much.

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Um, you know, and, and also like

technician utilization, I would like to

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get your, your thoughts on it because

I utilize my technicians to the top of

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their license, like they, without them,

I could only do maybe 10 or 15 surgeries,

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but with them, I can do so much.

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So what are your thoughts on, on

the kind of like the, the, the

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technicians that are leaving the field

because they're just not utilized or

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compensated as well as they should.

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Dr. Jeff Young: They're not

compensated and they're burned out.

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Once again, they see it too.

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I've had a couple of technician

people, uh, leave and come back

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because, you know, they made me make

a little bit more money somewhere

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else, but they realized that there's

no satisfaction in their job there.

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You know, it's just, it's, you know, it's.

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Bring an animal in, make as much

money as you can and send it out.

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And that's it, you know,

and there's no purpose.

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Um, and I, I do think it's

important to pay a livable wage.

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I've always said that.

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And, um, you know, I've always been

associated with humane groups and stuff.

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And I've always complained about, you

know, like, well, you, the people come

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in and clean these cages and do all

this work and you're paying them 1.

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95 an hour, you know, and you

can't figure out why you can't

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keep them or, you know, why they

get, they get frustrated, you know?

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So I think paying a livable

wage is really important.

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Um, and I think letting your techs

reached out to the very end of

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their abilities in terms of what's

legal for them in any given state.

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I think every state is different.

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In some states allow techs

to do more, some less.

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But you know, I, I believe,

I personally think we should

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have spay and neuter techs.

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You know, I think we should

be able to train them.

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We don't have that here in Colorado.

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But, you know, they actually, I think

they were talking about doing something

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like that and something like over 60

percent of vets thought it was a good

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idea, but then they voted it down because

they were afraid of the competition,

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you know, but if it's still under, you

know, under a vet's supervision, you

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know, as a vet student, as a freshman in

vet school, you can come in pretty much

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do any surgery if I'm on the premise.

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You know, but if you're a tech that's

worked with me for 20 years, you can't,

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you know, um, and I don't know, you

know, does that make any sense to you?

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Well, you don't open that whole

door, but if it's just spay neuter,

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you limit to certain things.

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You can make a real difference

with society and make a difference

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in those people's lives.

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And I just think it's it's it's better

for for our profession overall, you know,

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but uh, Yeah, the powers that be would

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DrG: disagree.

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I 100 percent agree with that as well.

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And I talk about that with my

technicians because I have at least two

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technicians that would be very willing

to learn how to do spays and neuters.

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And I know that they're

very intelligent people.

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It's not like they went into tech

school because they're they're not

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smart enough to go to vet school.

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They went into tech school because

that's what they wanted to do.

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And yeah, it would be amazing

if, yeah, under my supervision

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under my care while I'm there.

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If they were allowed to do some

minor procedures, some spays and

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neuters, that way I am there.

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So if they get into a bind, just

like a vet student, I have to be

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present for them to do surgeries.

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Same, same kind of thing.

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And you know, I hear a lot about this

competition stuff, but The number of

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animals that need to see a vet and

need to be sterilized, that right there

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tells you that there's not going to be

any competition for a really long time.

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Like we need to get our minds out of

the whole competition idea and focus on

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what's important, which is the animals.

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Dr. Jeff Young: Well, I think we talk

about competition all the time, but we're,

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as a profession, we're the first to try to

squash it, you know, and make it go away

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because we don't really want competition.

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You know, we want to have

our cake and eat it too.

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And as they're out today, they

try to pass a bill in Colorado

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that said, Dogs and cats are a

special type of personal property.

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And if you malpractice, you

could be, you could, you could

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have to pay up to 10, 000.

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I, I, you know, that's a good idea.

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It seems fair enough.

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And if I screw up, it's

my legitimate mistake.

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And the people can, you know,

they have that connection.

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If I have to pay some money, so be it,

you know, um, man, the vet profession

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came out, they squished that so fast, you

know, at the same time, the same people.

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I had a cat come in that was

quoted 20, 000 for an Explorer.

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Um, you know, I had a, it was, I did

an anal gland removal that was quoted

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8, 000 for an anal gland removal.

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I mean, just crazy.

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You know, so like if we're that

worth that much, if you screw up, why

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shouldn't you have to pay that much?

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Or at least some of that, you

know, but once again, we don't,

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we want our cake and eat it too.

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You know, I just personal property.

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They have no value, you know, because

they're just personal property, like

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a TV, which is what the law says

across America, pretty much, you know.

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Um, And it's like, well, they're

really not just personal property,

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they're kind of special personal

property, if anything, you know, so,

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DrG: yeah, no, yeah, I'm, I'm

currently studying animal law at

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Lewis and Clark, a master's in

animal law for non law students.

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And the concept of animals as

living property comes up, right?

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Because there's a lot of, a lot of,

uh, issues between animal welfare and

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animal rights and what's correct and

what's not, but yeah, it comes back to

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animals are just considered property.

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In the eyes of the law, just like a

TV or a microwave, yet veterinarians

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and technicians are very tied up into

what we can and cannot do at times.

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And, uh, and there were precautions

for doing something wrong.

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So there's a huge disconnect

there as well, as far as what's

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allowed and what's not allowed.

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Dr. Jeff Young: Yeah, yeah, I'm pretty

sure I could, I can work on my own

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TV and my own toaster if I want to.

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Now I might electrocute myself

and die, but that's on me, right?

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And I have to say, technically

in Colorado, you know, you can

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do surgery on your own animal,

you know, and that's not illegal.

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Now, you may not have the drugs for it,

things like that, but if you had the drugs

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and access to it, you could legally do

it, whether you knew what you're doing or

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not, that would be legal for you to do.

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And that comes over from the large animal

side as much as anything, because, you

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know, let's face it, vets aren't doing

a lot of dehorning and castrations out

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there on the farms anymore, you know.

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They have technicians and other people,

just the ranchers, the owners, you

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know, and it's not rocket science

in the end, let's face it, you know.

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A lot of things we do, I get pretty much

to each monkey to do in all honesty.

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DrG: Now, speaking of that,

we have standards of care.

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And one of the issues that I have with

my vet students is that everything that

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they want to do is gold standard of care.

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So what are you know, and we try to

explain to them about, yeah, gold

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standard is we should be able to offer

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clients, everything, all their

options, because we should never

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assume what they can and cannot do

or what they can and cannot afford.

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But this, this idea of gold standard

of care, uh, I think that it's actually

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creating more of a problem in animals not

getting any, any care or any treatment.

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And making owners feel bad because

they're not doing what they, what

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they're being told is right for their

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Dr. Jeff Young: pets.

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We're trying to, we try to guilt them

into it, you know, and you're right.

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It's just, it's the gold standard.

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And, and, uh, as you say, the problem

is, look, you can take a Volkswagen or

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you can take a Mercedes Benz to the prom,

but they both get you to the prom and

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that's the point, you know, uh, I do, I

do believe in informed consent, you know,

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when people bring an animal to me to do,

you know, like my first heart surgery,

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I said, look, I'm not a specialist.

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I've never done this before.

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You know, it's a good chance

your animal's going to die.

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Yeah.

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Uh, there was a single mom with a puppy

that, uh, actually had a persistent

336

:

aortic right, uh, aortic arch.

337

:

Um, and I did it right before Christmas.

338

:

It was successful.

339

:

I got a nice Christmas card from

the little boy it was attached

340

:

to, you know, and I got a hundred

dollars for surgery, you know.

341

:

So,

342

:

DrG: you know, and that's

what it's all about right

343

:

Dr. Jeff Young: there.

344

:

Well, that's the point.

345

:

Nothing could, you know, I mean, I

would, I would, I would have paid

346

:

them to do it quite frankly, you know,

but yeah, that's informed consent.

347

:

But if it would have died, you

know, and it didn't knock on would

348

:

have been pretty lucky that way.

349

:

I mean, I do some pretty crazy

surgeries and I pull them out.

350

:

I've had, I've actually had.

351

:

Animal come out from Ohio State

that was kicked in the head and

352

:

had some bone pieces and they'd

done CTs and everything else.

353

:

And I just went in and pulled all the

bone pieces, put a mesh in and it was

354

:

done fine ever since, you know, they

recorded, you know, tens of thousands of

355

:

dollars to do the same thing, essentially.

356

:

So I, you know, I don't know, you know,

like I'm going to give it my best shot.

357

:

You have to understand

that that's what I'm doing.

358

:

Give it my best shot.

359

:

I've never done this before.

360

:

And that's informed consent.

361

:

And I think, you know, our profession,

they kind of lean that way towards

362

:

informed consent, but they really want

to make that standard so high that,

363

:

you know, I mean, the alternative

is to put the animal to sleep.

364

:

And I don't understand that.

365

:

How's that an

366

:

DrG: alternative?

367

:

Or poor quality of care, right?

368

:

For them to just go on suffering,

depending on what they have.

369

:

Dr. Jeff Young: Yeah, people take their

animals home and they have to suffer

370

:

slow, miserable deaths or have horrible

mouth infections and stuff like, I

371

:

don't know, like how I know as an owner,

I don't know how you live with that.

372

:

But then as a veterinarian sending

them out the door, I don't know

373

:

how you live with that either.

374

:

Yeah.

375

:

DrG: And again, then

that comes back to that.

376

:

You know, compassion fatigue of, you know,

the dog is suffering and you're sending it

377

:

out the door with this rotted mouth, you

know, that it can't eat, or you euthanize

378

:

an animal for something that's completely

treatable just because the person cannot.

379

:

And sometimes we have to euthanize and it

doesn't mean that we can fix everything.

380

:

But, but just making it so that

euthanasia is not an option due to cost.

381

:

It's an option because it is an option.

382

:

It's on the table.

383

:

But, you know, taken

384

:

Dr. Jeff Young: away.

385

:

I've always said there's many things

worse than death and there are, you know,

386

:

so I, I don't believe in euthanizing

animals that I can fix and have a good

387

:

quality of life for, and I won't do it.

388

:

That's what shelters are for.

389

:

If they, you know, they want to take

it to a kill shelter or something,

390

:

but I won't, I won't do it.

391

:

I just think it's unethical,

you know, and I'll do my best.

392

:

I mean, I'd rather have them

sign the animal over to me if

393

:

they want to put no money in it.

394

:

Fix it and find it a new home.

395

:

And that's what we offer people,

you know, that, that are like that.

396

:

And it's not everybody, not everybody

likes their animals as much as

397

:

I like mine or you like yours.

398

:

And that's, you know, and

it's not just finances there.

399

:

That's just, you know, the

difference in human beings.

400

:

And, and, and I don't, I can't

say I respect it, but I don't,

401

:

you know, I don't necessarily.

402

:

Look down on those people.

403

:

I just think there's

something wrong with them.

404

:

You know, they're they're

somewhere they got along in life.

405

:

They got bent a little

bit and uh, I feel sorry.

406

:

My dog Fred means the world to me,

you know, and I have to say with

407

:

seven grandchildren, if they're all

hanging on the cliff and Fred was

408

:

there, I'm not sure who I'd grab first.

409

:

I always wonder sometimes.

410

:

I might just step on their

fingers and let them go.

411

:

That's another story.

412

:

DrG: So, um, one of the things

that we were discussing before

413

:

we started recording was as

far as income requirements.

414

:

Like, I don't have income

requirements and you don't either.

415

:

So can you explain to our listeners

what your thoughts are on that and why

416

:

you don't have income requirements?

417

:

Yeah.

418

:

I've taken

419

:

Dr. Jeff Young: a lot of flak from the

veterinary profession for not having an

420

:

income requirement, but in the end, the

people that come to me, in one sense,

421

:

they've put a certain value on, many times

they put a certain value on their animals.

422

:

It doesn't matter how much money you have.

423

:

If you're only going to spend 1.

424

:

95, you can be a

millionaire or billionaire.

425

:

But I also, more than anything, when

you do have truly poor people whose

426

:

animals, an integral part of say their

children's life or their life, you

427

:

know, to make them fill out forms,

uh, to prove that they're poor.

428

:

To me, it's just degrading

and make, and it's, I don't,

429

:

I just don't think it's right.

430

:

I think it's immoral and I

think it's degrading and I don't

431

:

think you make people like that.

432

:

The people like poor people make poor

decisions and they get stepped on all

433

:

the time in our society and they're

blamed for so many ridiculous things.

434

:

Um, I just don't want to be one of those

people and I'll have great compassion for.

435

:

For poor people and I've never been poor

per se in my life, but I've, you know,

436

:

other than, I mean, when you go to school

and things like that, but you've chosen

437

:

that life, you know, so, um, but I've

been around poverty a lot, you know,

438

:

and, um, you know, I, I don't know.

439

:

I just, uh, I don't, I don't

want to be that person to be

440

:

that judgmental and, and, and it

goes back to just to religious.

441

:

point of view to some degree, too.

442

:

You know what I mean?

443

:

I'm a big fan of the Sermon on the

Mount, you know, and I just don't think

444

:

it's my place to be judging people.

445

:

My place is here to help, help the

animal, which helps the people.

446

:

It's all combined together to me.

447

:

DrG: Yeah, I have, you know, I believe

in the human, the importance of the

448

:

human animal bond and the importance

that animals have as emotional support.

449

:

And I think that underserved

communities, homeless individuals,

450

:

just people experiencing struggles

need those animals probably even more

451

:

than those people who are better off.

452

:

Like, those animals are truly a

source of support and companionship.

453

:

And who are we to tell them, no,

you're too poor, so you can't

454

:

have that animal, first of all.

455

:

Second of all, The

shelters are overcrowded.

456

:

There's animal

overpopulation is ridiculous.

457

:

So how about having them be in a home

that is that where they're loved and

458

:

then helping support those individuals

so they're giving animals a good

459

:

quality of life in a loving home.

460

:

Dr. Jeff Young: I've had the

luxury of working with Dogs

461

:

Trust which is a great website.

462

:

You should look at Dogs Trust out of

the UK and Cat Protection out of the UK.

463

:

Cat Protection is definitely the world's

leaders in cats when it comes down to it.

464

:

But you know they In their

facilities in the UK.

465

:

Now, once again, they're probably

worth a billion dollars on paper.

466

:

So, you know, they're not like it's a

cheap organization, but they have 19, 20

467

:

facilities, but they all have a vet, they

all have a trainer, uh, they all have a

468

:

behaviorist, you know, and, and, you know,

like some of our biggest humane societies

469

:

in the States don't have a behavior

or trainer in, you know, 50, something

470

:

like 50 percent of the animals end up in

shelters for behavior issues, you know?

471

:

Uh, so why don't we, you

know, we're just like.

472

:

Barbarians that we were just behind

the times, you know, if we can correct

473

:

the problem, get the animal back in

the same household that came out of,

474

:

why would we take it in potentially

have to euthanize it or even go through

475

:

the process of finding a new home?

476

:

Makes no sense to me.

477

:

Uh, you know, we keep building bigger

and bigger, nicer, nicer shelters.

478

:

Um, but for what?

479

:

You know, it's like the goal

is to put yourself out of

480

:

business, you know, not become.

481

:

I've become a revolving door, you know,

and that's why I've always looked at, you

482

:

know, what I've done, you know, it's like,

you know, uh, people say, well, why don't

483

:

you just pay neutral to all the animals?

484

:

There'll be no animals, you know,

like that's never going to happen.

485

:

You

486

:

DrG: know, it's not going to happen.

487

:

Dr. Jeff Young: So I said, I got a

lot, I got really good job security.

488

:

I'm pretty sure that.

489

:

You know, but an underserved area is

something like 77 percent of animals

490

:

never make it to a veterinary and

never see a veterinarian in their life.

491

:

And up to 87 percent are never

fixed, you know, where we live in a

492

:

society where something like what,

90 percent of dogs are fixed over 90

493

:

percent of dogs and over 80 percent

of cats are fixed in America that are

494

:

owned, which is really high number.

495

:

But yet many of those have a litter

before they're fixed and things like that.

496

:

So education and the biggest reason

people don't get animals fixed is price.

497

:

It's price points, plain and

simple, comes back to money.

498

:

Yeah,

499

:

DrG: and and it's kind of a combination of

like affordability and then accessibility

500

:

because there are people that live in

secluded areas in rural areas, right?

501

:

And they just don't have they may be able

to afford it But they just can't get to

502

:

the vet and we think about you know having

to to drive two hours to get to a vet

503

:

Not many people are able to to do that.

504

:

So we have to think about you know, people

are not always Not taking proper care

505

:

of their animals because they don't want

to sometimes they they literally can't.

506

:

We have we think about like

individuals that are maybe handicapped

507

:

elderly that physically can't

can't take them out and just being

508

:

able to being able to assist them.

509

:

Dr. Jeff Young: No, that's a big issue

and and I think of the number of vet

510

:

schools throughout the nation like

CSU, which I think is one of the best

511

:

schools, you know, in the world but they

send their students to Montana on the

512

:

reservations or they go down to Mexico.

513

:

So, like, why not.

514

:

Just go over on the poor side of Colorado,

you know, there's all kinds of people

515

:

over there small community I go on the

Eastern Plains and these small towns

516

:

and set up and do 50 to 100 animals a

day Yeah, you know and there's a demand

517

:

for that all the time So like, you

know, but everybody it comes back to

518

:

state boards and everybody being afraid

of being sued, you know And and it's

519

:

like look You guys should be in charge.

520

:

You're leaders in this field.

521

:

So instead of, you know, they have

a, right now they're connected with

522

:

one of the big humane organizations.

523

:

And I think it's an all hospital hospital

there, but they don't do anything, you

524

:

know, like they're not open on weekends at

five o'clock, all the parvo animals, they

525

:

kick out, they have to find places to go.

526

:

If they didn't explore, they send it out.

527

:

I've had three explorers go out that I

know of that have died from that place

528

:

because they were not, you know, followed

up on it, taken care of properly,

529

:

you know, and that's considered you.

530

:

a standard of care, you know,

but they get away with it because

531

:

they have the connections.

532

:

I, I don't get it at all.

533

:

And it's really disturbing to me,

you know, that we should, we could

534

:

do so much more in our own backyard.

535

:

Uh, and we just don't.

536

:

DrG: Yeah, I think that teaching this,

again, it comes back to the students.

537

:

I, I don't know how much we can

change the minds of people that are

538

:

already out there and practicing

that have gotten used to certain ways

539

:

of living and practicing and stuff.

540

:

But that's where I feel that, you

know, helping the students learn and,

541

:

and engage in community service so

that they, they want to give back.

542

:

Because we, we look as well as, as far

as back to the concept of accessibility.

543

:

The rural areas don't have veterinarians,

but I don't feel like the vet schools

544

:

are getting kids that are in rural areas.

545

:

And it's, and to me,

it's really simple math.

546

:

It's you have a kid that,

that grows up in a rural area.

547

:

What do they grow up to be?

548

:

They grow up to be what they see.

549

:

Well, there's no veterinarians around.

550

:

They don't grow up working in veterinary

clinics or, you know, helping with

551

:

animals and doing that kind of stuff.

552

:

So they don't have a

role model to look up to.

553

:

So those kids, I don't feel that they're

necessarily applying to vet school.

554

:

So the kids that are applying to

vet school, do they want to graduate

555

:

and then go work in rural Ohio?

556

:

For making less than what they

can make in a corporate clinic

557

:

with bonuses and everything else.

558

:

The answer is no, right?

559

:

So I think that we have to, we have to

figure out ways, like, think outside

560

:

the box to look for ways to engage

the students and hopefully other

561

:

veterinarians that are getting tired of

general practice, corporate veterinary

562

:

medicine to practice in these areas.

563

:

And part of it is we have to figure

out how to properly compensate them so

564

:

that they can go to, to those places.

565

:

Um, because yeah, I mean,

the, the need is great.

566

:

And I just think that, you know,

we, there are ways of helping the

567

:

veterinary shortage, you know, we have

to increase the number of veterinarians

568

:

and hopefully the, the ability of

the technicians to do more stuff.

569

:

But we also have to figure out ways

to rework our current structure.

570

:

Dr. Jeff Young: No, and you're

right, you do have to target, you

571

:

know, find the bad areas and target

those areas, you know, uh, Dr.

572

:

Bushby with the Mississippi State, they go

out and they go to the rural environment,

573

:

but, you know, that's one bus or, you

know, a group of kids and you can only do

574

:

so much, you know, when you're training

and stuff, and that's reality, we need

575

:

people that are like you, like me, that

can do the numbers and get out and try to

576

:

make a difference in areas, but, you know,

like, there's only so many hours in a day,

577

:

it's just, it seems overwhelming at times.

578

:

Thank you.

579

:

Um, but it's not.

580

:

I mean, you know, the mere fact we're

not, we're, there's probably 20 million

581

:

animals a year we're not killing right

now, which is a real positive thing.

582

:

But, you know, you look at the

top, say, 10 humane societies in

583

:

America, and they're worth well

over a billion dollars all combined.

584

:

But how many spay neuter

clinics are they opening?

585

:

You know, the, the pet industry is

a 60 billion industry, and it goes

586

:

up a couple billion every year.

587

:

I saw obviously probably

a little dip during COVID.

588

:

I don't know.

589

:

Um, but in the end, there's

plenty of money out there.

590

:

So it's not a lack of funds, you know,

it's a lack of desire and lack of, you

591

:

know, thinking outside the box and wanting

to make a difference, you know, um, they

592

:

really are trying to teach the students

to come out and follow the party line.

593

:

And, um, you know, make you

make your millions, I guess.

594

:

I don't know.

595

:

Money is a short term motivator.

596

:

Now, I feel sorry for the kids

coming out that have two or three

597

:

hundred thousand dollars in debt.

598

:

Um, and that has to be

dealt with without a doubt.

599

:

But, you know, that, that's, uh,

that's not just a veterinary thing.

600

:

That's across the America thing.

601

:

You know, college just got out of control.

602

:

Um, but in the end, you know,

I just feel like we can do so

603

:

much more than what we're doing.

604

:

DrG: Yeah.

605

:

And I think that's where, again, like

mentorship, uh, Mentorship opportunities

606

:

and teaching, like what you're doing, what

we're doing, just so that these students

607

:

can graduate and be practice ready.

608

:

Because a lot of these veterinary

students graduate and they're licensed

609

:

to do surgery, but they have no idea what

they're doing because their experience

610

:

with surgery is like one spay that they

spend three and a half hours doing, right?

611

:

So they, they're.

612

:

Uh, their abilities, you know, we

have to, to do better as far as

613

:

teaching them so that they can, they

can graduate confident and efficient.

614

:

I tell all these students doing

50 surgeries in a day is not

615

:

rushing through the surgeries.

616

:

Doing a lot of surgeries in a day

is about being efficient and being

617

:

efficient is so good because the animals

under anesthesia less amount of time.

618

:

So they don't have as much risk with that.

619

:

Their temperatures don't go down as much.

620

:

Their incisions are not as big.

621

:

They're not uncomfortable.

622

:

And then the client comes in and picks

up a pet with a one centimeter incision.

623

:

And they're so happy to see it as

opposed to, you know, you come in and

624

:

like, actually the other day was, yes,

was talking about the 10 centimeter

625

:

incision in the 15 centimeter dog.

626

:

So being able to learn to do that,

because then what we're seeing here,

627

:

and I don't know if you're experiencing

that as well, is that people are

628

:

finding it easier to get small

animals and cats and small animals.

629

:

Fixed, but not the large dogs, especially

the large female dogs, because there's

630

:

not the, the ability to do that.

631

:

But then we have some veterinarians that

are teaching people to wait until their

632

:

large breed dogs are 150 pounds before

they fix it, because if not, they're

633

:

going to have orthopedic problems.

634

:

So then we're telling people, let

your dog get to be over 100 pounds.

635

:

So you can fix it, but then when it gets

that big, well, we can't fix it anymore.

636

:

Dr. Jeff Young: Yeah, yeah,

not are they're too old.

637

:

You know, I like that one

is a six year old dog.

638

:

That's too old to fix.

639

:

It's like, no, it's not too old to fix.

640

:

And then I'm a power meet you right now.

641

:

And I probably will next year.

642

:

You know, it's like, I don't.

643

:

So some of the stuff I've

seen just curls my hair.

644

:

But I also get.

645

:

You know, when I watched some of these

students, like, you know, if it's going

646

:

to take you three or four hours to do

a surgery and you got to do IVs and all

647

:

that kind of stuff for a routine, what

I would consider routine space should

648

:

take more than 20 minutes, you know, on

a bad day for a big dog, then like, I

649

:

get it why they got to charge so much,

you know, they're losing their ass.

650

:

DrG: Right.

651

:

No, and that's what I try to explain

to people because, you know, because of

652

:

how low we charge, a lot of people say,

well, how are you charging this low?

653

:

And my regular bed is charging a lot more.

654

:

And I tell them, it's

all about efficiency.

655

:

It's all, it's about overhead as well.

656

:

I have less overhead as a mobile

practice than a stationary practice.

657

:

But if I can do 30 surgeries,

I can clearly Charge less than

658

:

somebody who is only doing five

or six surgeries in a day, right?

659

:

And, and they may not be doing only

five surgeries because they don't

660

:

want to do more than that is because

physically they're unable to do it.

661

:

So that's why I think that the, the

additional training for, for students,

662

:

you know, if more veterinarians

would take in students and teach

663

:

them rather than just having them

come in and, you know, go do vaccines

664

:

because that's all you know how to do.

665

:

And never really train them and

empower them, then we're not gonna.

666

:

Move ahead, right?

667

:

What, what is your...

668

:

Now you

669

:

Dr. Jeff Young: can do

vaccines and anal glands.

670

:

DrG: Right, yeah, and the

occasional ear infection.

671

:

Yeah, exactly.

672

:

So, what are, what are your thoughts

as far as age of sterilization?

673

:

Like, what are your requirements for

age of sterilization at your clinic?

674

:

I

675

:

Dr. Jeff Young: gotta have a heartbeat.

676

:

That's pretty much my requirement.

677

:

Now, I, you know, obviously,

I'm fixed by five months.

678

:

Esther Mechler is like a second mom to me.

679

:

She's an amazing human being.

680

:

And, you know, she does the fixed by five.

681

:

They got the AVMAs on board with that.

682

:

So that's for cats, alright?

683

:

So that's by five months.

684

:

Um, I say fixed by five, I

mean five weeks in my mind.

685

:

So I go down to five, if I'm

traveling to reservations, places

686

:

like that, we go down to five

weeks, you know, uh, pretty readily.

687

:

Obviously, if you have an owned animal

and dealing with a client, well, it

688

:

makes more sense to go through and

get all the vaccines, have the last

689

:

one at 16 weeks and get them before

they get to be five months, you know.

690

:

Um, I'm going to be doing

a lecture real soon.

691

:

I've done it in the past, but it's

basically on, you know, uh, Why we

692

:

spay neuter, when to spay neuter,

and the controversy of spay neuter,

693

:

you know, and then a lot of stuff's

come out of UC Davis, as you may

694

:

have read about different things, but

they're really, it's very bad science.

695

:

And there's a real difference

between correlation versus causation.

696

:

But you know, if you look like the

Banfield study of:

697

:

did 460, 000 cats and what was it 2.

698

:

2 million dogs.

699

:

In the end, the conclusion

was fixed animals live longer.

700

:

Okay, fixed animals get more cancer.

701

:

Well, they live longer.

702

:

Humans live longer.

703

:

They get more cancer, too.

704

:

You know, if you're living two or three

years longer, and when you consider it's

705

:

supposed to be seven years for one, that's

like 20 years longer than you're living.

706

:

If you're 60 to 80, well, you're probably

going to get cancer in there, you know?

707

:

So, uh, I mean, a lot of the, a

lot of the literature is not good

708

:

science is what it boils down to.

709

:

And there's probably some things

that may be somewhat realistic, you

710

:

know, hip dysplasia, maybe more of

a problem with giant breed dogs.

711

:

But if you look at all the specific

things they name, most of it has

712

:

to do with breed, you know, like,

if you think osteosarcoma, what's

713

:

the first breed that comes to mind?

714

:

A Rottweiler, you know,

well, you know, so.

715

:

Have we bred that gene into them to

make them more susceptible to that?

716

:

So instead of maybe not spaying it till

it's a certain age, maybe we should figure

717

:

out and breed that gene back out of it.

718

:

So it doesn't ever get osteosarc, you

know, or make it a lot less likely.

719

:

So, but you know, we don't, we don't

spend our time energy on that, you

720

:

know, so I don't know, you know, it's,

uh, I, I'm still a believer in spay,

721

:

neuter, every longevity study that's ever

been done says that fixed animals live

722

:

longer, you know, three to five years

longer for cats, one to three on dogs.

723

:

I'll take that every time with my dog.

724

:

So, and if I have to do a knee

surgery, I'm "so what?", I'd rather

725

:

do the knee surgery for three

years and I'll, I'm okay with that.

726

:

DrG: Oh yeah.

727

:

And I interviewed Dr.

728

:

Bushby for the podcast because

I wanted to break down all the

729

:

research, all that UC Davis research.

730

:

Because that's what everybody

is always like citing.

731

:

And we went over all the

biases and everything else.

732

:

And I told him, you know, yeah,

I had a Great Dane and I spayed

733

:

her about five months because

I wanted to do a pexy as well.

734

:

So I waited until she was five months

old, spayed her and had a pexy.

735

:

And she did die of an osteosarcoma.

736

:

However, she was 13 years old.

737

:

So you know

738

:

Dr. Jeff Young: what?

739

:

Exactly.

740

:

That's a, that's an old great Dane.

741

:

Yes.

742

:

DrG: Exactly.

743

:

And it's like, you know, animals

have to pass away from something.

744

:

So whether they're, they're

dying at eight or they're dying

745

:

at 15, there's something there.

746

:

So yeah, we have to take

into consideration the

747

:

correlation and causation.

748

:

The other thing is that people say, Oh,

well, I don't want to spay or neuter

749

:

my dog because it's going to get fat.

750

:

You know how many fat dogs.

751

:

That are five plus years old.

752

:

I spay regularly.

753

:

Oh yeah.

754

:

It's not just, you know, being intact

doesn't mean that your dog's not going to

755

:

Dr. Jeff Young: get fat.

756

:

I hate to say it.

757

:

We live in a country.

758

:

I had people come in.

759

:

They're grossly obese

with a grossly obese dog.

760

:

They clearly feed all the time.

761

:

And they say, yeah, I don't want to spay

her because you're going to get fat.

762

:

And I think, God, are you fixed?

763

:

So you got spayed?

764

:

You know, cause I mean, like.

765

:

You know, I mean, because in

the end, there's, there's,

766

:

it's real, it's real plain.

767

:

It's how much exercise you

get, how much food you eat.

768

:

Those, I mean, we want the

magic pill and all that.

769

:

And I understand some people are

more genetically prone, but I, I've

770

:

coached distance running and I've had

kids that come in high school that

771

:

are just obese and they've worked

out with me and they've lost 80 to

772

:

a hundred pounds in high school.

773

:

And I know one kid has been

out for like almost 10 years.

774

:

He's still running and you, you know,

like he's, he's not thin by any means,

775

:

but he's not obese anymore either.

776

:

He's fit, you know, and you can be.

777

:

Thick and still be fit.

778

:

You know, you don't have to be obese.

779

:

It's the same thing with our animals.

780

:

They don't have to be obese.

781

:

You know, they can be

a little bit thicker.

782

:

Rottweiler is going to be a little

thicker than a Chihuahua, you know,

783

:

but you know, I mean, we basically have

Ottomans that come in here like, you know,

784

:

like all they are just square tables.

785

:

And I mean, that's just overfeeding

and no exercise, plain and simple.

786

:

And that has nothing

to do with being fixed.

787

:

Not, you know, in those studies

that look at being fixed.

788

:

Okay.

789

:

What?

790

:

They don't do background.

791

:

Okay, there's a difference

with intact male.

792

:

It's on a chain and outside

that may get fed once a day.

793

:

It may not.

794

:

And a dog is sleeping on your

bed, you know, it's getting extra

795

:

food and table scraps, you know?

796

:

So, uh, a lot of it, it's

our own doing, let's face it.

797

:

You know, we, we like to share our food.

798

:

DrG: Right.

799

:

Exactly.

800

:

And I mean, I, I always, I'll tell

people we have an option, right?

801

:

If we are overweight, we have an option

to go to the fridge and feed ourselves.

802

:

But for our animals to be

overweight, we do that to them.

803

:

It's the whole killing them with,

with love, you know, because yeah,

804

:

this morning I was eating and my cat

is like right in my face asking me

805

:

for, for food and sadly for my cats.

806

:

I have a very, like, I, I don't give

in, so they just, uh, you know, they

807

:

don't get, they don't get table scraps,

so my cats were, uh, spayed, neutered,

808

:

I have a boy and a girl, and they were

done very, very early on, and they're

809

:

not overweight, they're not obese,

because their weight is, is managed,

810

:

but I also, you know, they get, they

exercise within the house and that kind

811

:

of stuff, like we have to, you know.

812

:

We have to do, do better by them rather

than looking for the, for the easy fix

813

:

or the, or the easy quick pill, right?

814

:

I've always

815

:

Dr. Jeff Young: had fixed animals and

none of my animals are overweight.

816

:

My, you know, you can look at my golden

Fred and he goes out for two, three,

817

:

four hour hikes with, with Petra, Dr.

818

:

Petra all the time.

819

:

I mean, you know, and he gets fed

really well, but we just don't

820

:

overfeed him, you know, and we make

sure he gets the proper exercise.

821

:

And it's, it's not rocket science,

you know, um, but everybody wants

822

:

the easy fix and there's no easy fix.

823

:

Well, at least not yet that I'm aware of.

824

:

Right.

825

:

DrG: So, what are going to be the,

the most common things that you see

826

:

at your practice that, that come in?

827

:

Dr. Jeff Young: Uh, we do a lot

of knees, a lot of FHOs, but you

828

:

know, spay neuter, we have our

spay neuter day every Wednesday.

829

:

We do spay neuter pretty much every day,

but that's our spay neuter day period.

830

:

But we do right now, because we're

30 minutes outside of Denver, we're

831

:

not down, down in Denver anymore.

832

:

Um, We're getting a lot of Explorers,

a lot of Splanectomies, you know,

833

:

because they're being quoted

once again, eight, 10, 12, 000.

834

:

And, you know, we top out at 2000, a lot

of times less we're on a sliding scale.

835

:

And also, um, so sometimes we do them

for nothing, but we don't tell people.

836

:

But, uh, so, you know, we're, you

know, and that's the point you can

837

:

start out a certain, you can't raise

your price, but, you know, we started

838

:

high income down, you know, but you

can't start the bottom and go out.

839

:

Well, how much can you do afford?

840

:

You can get another quarter, right?

841

:

Uh, so a lot of times it is kind of

shaking quarters out of people, you

842

:

know, because as a nonprofit, my goal

is for us to make enough money to make

843

:

our payroll, at least, you know, that's

always been my goal to make our payroll.

844

:

And if we do extra things in terms

of going out to a small community

845

:

and do an extra spay neuter or going

to reservations or send a suture

846

:

overseas, I That comes from the extra

money from people that donate to us,

847

:

you know, uh, and we have great fans

that follow us and that give us money.

848

:

So that, that's always good.

849

:

Um, you know, but once again, we were

around for 30, 30 years as a for profit

850

:

and a very profitable for profit, I

might add, you know, we did really well.

851

:

Switching over to a nonprofit was

kind of a decision I made because

852

:

of the TV show as much as anything.

853

:

And then I can't say it's been a great

decision, good one way or the other.

854

:

Uh, just, it is what it is.

855

:

It seems like we're working

just as hard as we ever have.

856

:

And, uh, money's tight all the time.

857

:

But part of that was COVID

increasing people's pay and those,

858

:

those kinds of things, you know?

859

:

So,

860

:

DrG: as you mentioned, as far as

payroll, being able to make payroll,

861

:

like that's our biggest expense, right?

862

:

Because we invest in our people.

863

:

So, we, one of the, one of the issues

that we were discussing before we

864

:

started recording was as far as, you

know, technicians and, and assistants

865

:

from other veterinary clinics

that come to see us because they

866

:

cannot afford care at their place.

867

:

And my thoughts on that are always,

are they not being paid enough?

868

:

Right?

869

:

Because then they, they, they should

be able to afford whatever the

870

:

place is, or is the place charging

too much, like, or, or is it both?

871

:

Uh, because I'm, I'm, I would, I'm

happy to say that my technicians, all

872

:

my employees, they would be able to

afford, even without a discount, the

873

:

cost that I charge for their, for their

874

:

Dr. Jeff Young: pets.

875

:

I've had people that fired and brought

their animals to me because they,

876

:

you know, it was like, can we please

see my dog and he's this problem,

877

:

you know, because they've been quoted

because they know we do a good job.

878

:

They know what we do,

you know, so, uh, yeah.

879

:

And that's a big part of it.

880

:

I agree.

881

:

I mean, they, um, plus, I don't know.

882

:

I just find it weird that.

883

:

Maybe it's a corporate thing, but

again, it's someone that works for you.

884

:

So do you got to charge them at all?

885

:

I mean, maybe cover your costs.

886

:

I get that, you know, like,

and we're a nonprofit.

887

:

So, you know, if I do something, well, you

know, like what's the cost of the blood

888

:

work, you know, if it costs us 20 bucks,

can you pay the 20 bucks, you know, right.

889

:

And we're not going to charge you

40 bucks or whatever, you know,

890

:

and I would never count my time.

891

:

If I'm doing a surgery for one of my,

one of the people that works for me or

892

:

a close friend, I never count my time.

893

:

You know, I just, uh, I don't do it.

894

:

So.

895

:

We try to make things reasonable for

the people that we care about and that

896

:

care about us, I guess, is the point.

897

:

.

DrG: Yeah, exactly.

898

:

We want to take care of each other because

I see a lot of articles and stuff saying

899

:

your co workers are not your family.

900

:

Get that out of your mind.

901

:

But I do see my co workers

as my family, right?

902

:

I see them as my kids and I got to take

care of them and they kind of, in return,

903

:

they kind of take care of me, right?

904

:

We're like, we all take

care of each other.

905

:

So I'm not here to, to

profit off my staff.

906

:

I mean, I don't, I don't profit of

any one person that I serve, so why

907

:

would I even profit off my staff?

908

:

Dr. Jeff Young: I understand.

909

:

I agree with you 110%.

910

:

DrG: Is there anything that you

would tell, you know, either

911

:

young veterinarians, new graduates

or, uh, veterinary students?

912

:

What kind of words of wisdom would

you, would you tell them when we have

913

:

so many people leaving the profession?

914

:

Dr. Jeff Young: I think more

than anything that money is a

915

:

short term motivator and there's.

916

:

You're only limited by your imagination.

917

:

I think so many people are afraid to

start up their own business, you know,

918

:

but, uh, I'm real proud of so many

of the vets, almost every vet that's

919

:

worked for me that's left and started

their own practice because they've

920

:

learned so much while they were here

and they feel confident doing it.

921

:

So, I mean, to me, that's a, that's saying

something, cause it's probably a good.

922

:

You know, 15 people that I can think of

and start practice in different states

923

:

or, you know, a couple in Colorado.

924

:

Um, so that really means something to me.

925

:

So I think, you know, I think, uh,

reaching out to main organizations, you

926

:

know, depending on where you're from.

927

:

Uh, and I think trying to

come back to a plan, Peter and

928

:

actually come out to Colorado.

929

:

We'll teach you stuff,

you know what I mean?

930

:

Be willing to learn, keep an open mind,

and realize you can make a decent living

931

:

without having to screw over anybody over.

932

:

You know, uh, enjoy, enjoy what you do.

933

:

I love working with the animals.

934

:

I love working with people, you

know, and I just, I think there's so

935

:

much out there that can be done, and

uh, you know, once you get in that

936

:

corporate mode, you don't see it, you

can't see the forest for the trees.

937

:

What did you get in the profession for?

938

:

You know, if you just want

money, I'm okay with that.

939

:

We'll get a corporate job.

940

:

If you want to make a difference in

people's lives and animals lives, you've

941

:

got to refocus and broaden your horizons.

942

:

DrG: And we have to be okay

with the people, right?

943

:

Like so many people say, I want to work

with animals because I don't like people.

944

:

If you don't like people, forget it.

945

:

Cause the animal doesn't bring itself.

946

:

Right.

947

:

Not since the Dr.

948

:

Doolittle Rex Harrison movie where

the animals just brought themselves.

949

:

Like we have to take care of the people.

950

:

Um, so yeah, this has been.

951

:

Amazing.

952

:

This has probably been the most

fun interview that I have done so

953

:

far since I started this podcast.

954

:

So I, I just really want to

thank you for, for being here.

955

:

I want to thank you for doing

what you do, because I mean,

956

:

we are on the same wavelength.

957

:

We are halfway different areas

of the Of the country, but

958

:

kind of doing the same thing.

959

:

So thank you so very much.

960

:

All the best of luck.

961

:

Thank you.

962

:

And to And to everybody that's listening.

963

:

I hope that you got some good information

about what we discussed here And thank

964

:

you so much for listening and thank

you so much for caring about animals

965

:

Dr. Jeff Young: And if you want to come

down to mexico sometime do one of our

966

:

big spay neuter clinics, you're welcome

We got a beautiful place down there

967

:

and uh, you know, you get down there.

968

:

We house you and take care of you.

969

:

So

970

:

DrG: Fantastic.

971

:

I may take you up on that Okay

972

:

Dr. Jeff Young: Thank you so much Dr.

973

:

Jeff.

974

:

Thank you.

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About the Podcast

The Animal Welfare Junction
Veterinary Forensics
The Animal Welfare Junction is a podcast developed to bring awareness to different topics in animal welfare. The host, Michelle Gonzalez (Dr. G) is a veterinarian who provides affordable veterinary care in the State of Ohio, and also a Forensic Veterinarian helping with the investigation and prosecution of cases of animal cruelty and neglect.
The topics presented are based on the experiences of Dr. G and our guests and include discussions about real cases, humane projects, and legal issues that affect animals and the community. Due to the nature of the discussion, listener discretion is advised as some topics may be too strong for some listeners.

About your host

Profile picture for Alba Gonzalez

Alba Gonzalez

Michelle González (DrG) was born and raised in Puerto Rico. Her passion growing up was to become a veterinarian. She obtained a B.S. in Zoology at Michigan State University and the Doctor of Veterinary Medicine degree at The Ohio State University, followed by a 1-yr Internship in Medicine, Surgery, Emergency and Critical Care at the University of Missouri-Columbia. In 2006 she founded the Rascal Unit, a mobile clinic offering accesible and affordable sterilization, and wellness services throughout the State of Ohio.
Dr. G is involved in many aspects of companion veterinary medicine including education, shelter assistance and help to animals that are victims of cruelty and neglect.
DrG completed a Master’s degree in Veterinary Forensics from the University of Florida and a Master’s in Forensic Psychology from Southern New Hampshire University. She is currently enrolled at the University of Florida Forensic Science program. She assists Humane organizations and animal control officers in the investigation, evaluation, and prosecution of cases of animal cruelty and neglect.