Animal ForensiCon 2025: Dogfighting with Janette Reever

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DrG:

All right. So for like, people keep coming at me saying that I'm an expert in dog fighting and I just learned about dog fighting like three years ago. And to talk to us is who taught me everything I know about dog fighting. So, you know, I'm a quick study, but it takes a good teacher. So thank you Janette for being here.

Janette Reever:

Thank you so much.

DrG:

So can you tell us about how you got involved in dog fighting?

Janette Reever: Certainly so, it actually started quite a while ago. I had a, um, came across a video of a mentor of mine, Eric Sakich, talking about dog fighting, and I immediately was hooked. I wanted to start investigating.

ack in the early nineties, in: 1996

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investigations doing as, as much training as could on my own until I started with Humane Society of the United States,

w Humane World for Animals in: 2009

So you're always gonna learn something.

DrG:

I, I like that you say that because there are so many people that are close-minded and say, I don't, I know everything. Yes. Like, I, I know that I know, don't know everything and everything that I learned gives me more questions about what's next.

So, um, what are, what are gonna be some of the things that you're looking for when you're going into a dog fighting like a crime scene?

Janette Reever:

If you're going into a crime scene you wanna look at, at the entire thing. Before you go in take a deep breath. It's hard not to get fixated on an on one animal.

You have to be completely open and look at everything. Look at from the floor to the animals. What's, you know

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what's on the walls, look up in the trees. You have to have an open mind and have someone come in after you and do a walkthrough with you to make sure you got everything and you're looking to see what is abnormal, uh, what is there.

Obviously you're, most of the time, depending on the location, you'll see chained dogs, and the confinement will be very consistent. It'll be heavy chains, thick collars. Um, you also look, if, if it's more of an urban environment, you, you may see animals that are in stacked cages and kennels and look to see what else is there.

Oftentimes dog fighters will leave paraphernalia lying around. For example, you may see what looks like a stick with a tapered edge, about a, about a foot long. And, uh, that is what's called a break stick. And it may even be a broom handle that they've whittle down. Um, look for stuff like that. Uh, look for items,

it's, it's called a flirt pole. And it could be something that is homemade. Basically it's just a long stick with a rope on it, with cow hide, deer hide and they condition these dogs with that. Look for any

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kind of paperwork. And when, when I go in somewhere, I'm very nosy, so I wanna look at everything because I, I

don't wanna miss a thing. If you see a long string of numbers, if you see a name, um, you, you see talking about, let's say 1XW, which stands for one time winner. Look for anything that you think could even possibly be re uh, remotely associated. And the reason why I say about the long string of numbers is 'cause that could be the dog's pedigree number that you could look that up.

It's best if, if you're legally there and you're doing a search warrant, take anything that could be any way, shape, or form related to, to dogs or animals. You can always give it back if it's not, if it's not germane to the case. Also you wanna look at notebooks, you wanna look in, in, all the DVDs, CDs, all that type of stuff.

'cause oftentimes they will record and have it labeled something else. Um, make sure if at all possible, as soon as law enforcement makes entry, that they, they get the cell phones off of the individuals,

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take computers. These individuals can't help but boast and brag and talk about dogs. So there's a lot of conversations and never fails.

You always have, uh, you'll go through the phone log, from the search warrant, and it'll be, y'all are talking too much about dogs and that two minutes later they're talking about. You know, dog fighting and most importantly, if, if it's something you're not familiar with, um, reach out to someone that that knows either you, me, you know, my colleagues.

Um, I, I'm a big believer in sharing knowledge and asking for help.

DrG:

It's really rare to go into one of these cases and actually see the dog fight, right?

Janette Reever:

Yes.

DrG:

So is there any one thing that says, oh, this is a dog fight case and you know, I have enough information, or do you need more than that?

Janette Reever:

So it depends on the state.

Um, uh, some states. It, it's illegal to own, possess, breed, and sell for the purpose of fighting other states. It's got paraphernalia laws where if you have items in that are

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used to further, to further animal fighting, such as the conditioning equipment, such as breeding stands, which is known the dog fighting world as a rate stand.

All those items could be taken into consideration when you're making the case. The point is, you wanna go in there and be slow and methodic with your case. You don't wanna go in there and say he's fighting dogs and he may have dogs in other locations. He may have kennel partners. You wanna make sure you have a solid case 'cause really and truly have one shot at these individuals.

There is a pretty famous case out of Louisiana and this individual is extremely well known in the dog fighting world. And unfortunately there was a, a drop in the prosecution side. And he, he was acquitted and now law enforcement won't touch him. Very, very well known and documented. Um, he's, he's a living legend, so.

Take your time. And, and as I said, if you're, if you're not familiar, you need assistance, we're here to help, we're experts in animal fighting, testify in

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court, et cetera. So there's always someone there that can assist with your investigations.

DrG:

I think one of the questions that the general public usually has is, can these dogs be adopted?

Can be be that, can they be around other animals since they have such a, such a great fighting drive? Yes. What's the answer to that?

Janette Reever:

So, absolutely, and, and I like to say that

it's important to remember that dogs are individuals and, and just because they came from dog fighting bloodlines does not mean that well, one, it doesn't, it doesn't assure you that these dogs are going to be, um, they're even gonna be used for fighting. You can have a dog that comes from very well documented fighting lines.

And at two years of age when they start to do what's called a game check, uh, basically start fighting these dogs to see, do they have the qualities they like? And the dog may not have any of those. And furthermore, there's um, a very famous dog, the name of Grand Champion Virgil. And Virgil was owned by Bob Loomis and he was a five time winner.

And this dog would, would annihilate. He basically killed every dog in the pit, but one,

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um, just a, a incredible fighting dog in the dog fighting world. And there is a homemade video, um, that circulates that, you know, we have this, and it's of Virgil after he retired because he made him an incredible amount of money.

Virgil rode around when Loomis would ride around on his ATV with his a hundred plus dogs at the time, and Virgil would get out and, and just run around with the other dogs. So if you took that exact same dog and put those two dogs, those two intact males, put them in a dog or a pit and faced them off together, they would've fought.

You know, so either one couldn't fight anymore or to the death. So, again, each dog's an individual. We have, um, it's right around 88% live rate. Um, there are certain dogs that just cannot be released to the public. It could be unethical, and you don't want someone else's animal getting hurt or harmed.

The saddest thing, I think with dog fighting cases is the dogs that, that they're so game, meaning that they, they always wanna fight a dog, you cannot put your guard down for at

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all is they're usually the ones that the sweetest dogs. And even the dogs that you know, that, that don't make it, those dogs, um, they passed and they were given compassion, kindness.

They didn't have to die with the brutality in the pit. Um, so it's, it's always a success to rescue them and to understand you didn't put these dogs in these situations. The animal fighters did.

DrG:

For individuals that wanna find more information about dog fighting, whether they're veterinarians or humane officers, that kind of stuff, what resources are there for them?

Janette Reever:

So there is a ton of information right now. The Humane World for Animals, we offer free training to law enforcement, shelter employees. Um, you, Dr. G, do a lot of training for us. Um, so there is a, a lot of information that can, can be out there. I encourage you to go to, uh, to a source that is credible.

In talking about dog fighting, um, there's a lot of misinformation and myths such as, uh, bait dogs. Dog fighters do not use bait dogs. So there's, you wanna make sure it's credible information. Uh, A-S-P-C-A

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has got a lot of training materials, um, you know. There's a lot of stuff out there, but, um, if they get in touch with your podcast, 'cause I kind of learned quite a bit from your podcast, um, to reach out to either you or I, I mean we can, we can help direct people and if there's something in particular

they're looking for. I'm also just given how long I've done this and the amount of people I meet, um, I always say, if, if I can't help you, I'll find someone who can. So there's, there's someone knows somebody and they can help.

DrG:

Yeah, I think everybody, you know, this is really great information 'cause everybody needs to be alert because some people think that it's certain individuals or certain communities that are more

prone to doing this, and really it can be your next door neighbor in a nice, fancy community. Right?

Janette Reever:

Exactly. And if I can touch on that, there is no racial barrier. It doesn't matter about if you're college educated, if you're white collar, blue collar, it does not matter. People who, um, wouldn't associate, um, 'cause they're in different social classes or whatever, when it comes to dog fighting, there is no

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barrier there.

They don't care about the race. They don't care if you're male or female. Religion. Um, it's, it's, I mean that's, that's the one thing that you brought up an excellent point is there is no divider there when it comes to animal fighting.

DrG:

Excellent. Well, thank you so much for doing this and for anybody listening, you did a very long podcast on dog fighting a year ago or so.

Janette Reever:

Yep.

DrG:

So they can go back if they want more details about it. But thank you so much for being here and for teaching all these people about things that they need to look for.

Janette Reever:

Wonderful. Thank you very much. I appreciate it.