Episode 73

full
Published on:

3rd Oct 2024

LA Times Investigative Report on the Puppy Mill Pipeline to California, with Melody Gutierrez and Alene Tchekmedyian

Investigative reporters for the LA Times, Melody Gutierrez and Alene Tchekmedyian, discuss the findings of their investigation into the puppy mill pipeline to California, the cruelty and the fraud. From the LA Times:

  • An L.A. Times investigation found that many dogs sold as California-bred come from mass breeders in the Midwest.
  • Unsuspecting pet buyers can face heartache and thousands of dollars in vet bills when their puppies get sick or die.
  • California is destroying veterinary records that provide details about a pet’s origin and health status.

Help us by sharing, liking, and rating this episode! And visit the LA Times for the full report.

To reach the LA Times' Pets for Profit page, visit https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2024-09-12/pets-for-profit-an-in-depth-investigation

Mentioned in this episode:

Keep it Humane Podcast Network

The Animal Welfare Junction is part of the Keep It Humane Podcast Network. Visit keepithumane.com/podcastnetwork to find us and our amazing animal welfare podcast partners.

10% off Tomahawk products

Use keyword keepithumane at checkout at livetrap.com

Transcript
DrG:

Hi, and welcome to the Animal Welfare Junction.

2

:

This is your host, Dr.

3

:

G, and our music is written

and produced by Mike Sullivan.

4

:

Today, this is a really interesting

article that was published in the

5

:

LA Times, and it's a really good

timing because we just recently

6

:

spoke with Shelby Bobosky about the

puppy mill pipeline to Texas, and now

7

:

we're going to be talking about the

puppy mill pipeline to California.

8

:

So from the LA Times, we have

two investigative reporters.

9

:

We have Melody Gutierrez

and Alene Tchekmedyian.

10

:

Welcome to The Junction.

11

:

Thank you for being here.

12

:

Thanks.

13

:

Thank you for having us.

14

:

So, uh, Melody, do you want to start by

telling us about your background and where

15

:

you come from and how you ended up at the

LA Times as an investigative reporter?

16

:

Melody Gutierrez: Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

17

:

So I've been a reporter for over

two decades and started off with

18

:

a small town newspaper in 29

palms in Southern California.

19

:

and worked my way up.

20

:

I've worked at the Sacramento Bee, the

San Francisco Chronicle, and ultimately,

21

:

um, have been a reporter at the L.

22

:

A.

23

:

Times now.

24

:

Um, I've covered politics, healthcare

politics, all sorts of, uh, animal related

25

:

legislation over the years, um, and

actually started off as a sports reporter.

26

:

So I've covered the gamut of any kind of

reporting and have been an investigative

27

:

reporter for about two years now.

28

:

DrG: Awesome.

29

:

How about you, Alene?

30

:

Alene Tchekmedyian: Yeah,

I joined the times in:

31

:

And before that, I had also worked at

smaller community papers in Glendale

32

:

in Los Angeles County and Burbank.

33

:

Um, and when I joined the times, I

also have done a range of papers.

34

:

Topics in terms of be coverage.

35

:

I started off doing breaking news.

36

:

And then I've also covered courts,

law enforcement and criminal justice.

37

:

DrG: Awesome.

38

:

And if you're watching this on

YouTube, she is not hiding from us.

39

:

She's just not able to share her video.

40

:

So, um, so let's start

talking about the, about this.

41

:

What, what drove you to investigate this?

42

:

Melody Gutierrez: We actually started off

working on a completely different story,

43

:

um, so our entry into this was a little

bit different and so we were looking at

44

:

how could we possibly look, uh, look at

the number of dogs coming into California

45

:

and while talking to, um, Mindy Callison

at Bailing Out Benji, she had mentioned

46

:

that there are these records called

Certificates of Veterinary Inspection.

47

:

And that she had actually been looking

at him for California because, you

48

:

know, she had seen that there were

these dogs disappearing, um, into

49

:

California and what she meant by

that was, you know, the records, the

50

:

certificates of veterinary inspection

were listing fake names, fake addresses.

51

:

And she couldn't figure out

where these dogs were going.

52

:

And so that was part of what like

drove us to start looking at, you know,

53

:

well, where are these dogs going and

what can we possibly determine, um,

54

:

not only just about like those dogs,

but as we started going and trying to

55

:

get these records, we realized like

one, it's not easy because California

56

:

deletes these records or there's no

way of getting them in California.

57

:

And when we started to go to other

states and start analyzing, we ended

58

:

up counting 88, 000 dogs coming into

California since:

59

:

2018, and, you know, started to

see a lot of trends in that data.

60

:

DrG: One of the things that our

listeners may not realize is that

61

:

there is a law against selling animals

for retail in California, right?

62

:

Can you, can one of you explain

a little bit about that?

63

:

Alene Tchekmedyian: Yeah, so

actually, California was the 1st

64

:

state to implement that type of law.

65

:

And in 2017, they, uh, passed this law

to ban the sale of cats and dogs and

66

:

rabbits, I think, in, uh, pet stores.

67

:

And so in order to get a dog from a pet

store, it had to be a rescue or a dog

68

:

from a shelter and they can have adoption

events, but you couldn't buy commercially

69

:

bred dogs from pet stores in California.

70

:

And they strengthened those

laws over over the years.

71

:

Um, you know, there was some issues with

dogs from commercially bred facilities

72

:

being passed off as rescues and so

they change the law again to close that

73

:

loophole and, that was kind of a big part

of our, our investigation because we found

74

:

that, the unintended consequence of those

laws was sort of pushing this market, the

75

:

puppy trade in California underground.

76

:

DrG: So the dogs that you were, that

we were looking into, um, basically

77

:

what you're saying is that they

were not being sold by pet stores.

78

:

They were being sold directly to

individuals or were there some

79

:

that were ending up in pet stores?

80

:

Alene Tchekmedyian: We found that

there were actually brokers like

81

:

middlemen that kind of were substituting

for pet stores in California.

82

:

And this was like a totally unregulated

market because at pet stores, you could,

83

:

you know, potentially see where the

dog came from, you know, on the, cage,

84

:

there's like, probably a cage card with

some information, um, but the brokers

85

:

that we identified in our reporting,

were getting dogs from out of state.

86

:

And then many of them were posing

as breeders, or saying that

87

:

they bred the dogs themselves.

88

:

And passing them off as locally bred,

you know, like I'm a small home breeder.

89

:

These dogs live in my home with me.

90

:

They're spoiled.

91

:

Um, but they were actually being

born at mass facility, mass

92

:

breeding facilities out of state.

93

:

DrG: And these are brokers, like the,

these are people that live in California.

94

:

Alene Tchekmedyian: Yeah.

95

:

Yeah.

96

:

DrG: Yeah, basically, I mean, for,

for our listeners that do not quite

97

:

understand how this whole thing works

is usually you have a breeder who is

98

:

the individual that is conducting the

breeding, but then we have the brokers,

99

:

which tend to be the individuals that

go from point A to point B, right?

100

:

So they, they go and pick up the

animals from the breeder, and then

101

:

they take them to the destination

where they're going to be sold.

102

:

Um, so what is it that you found out

as you started looking into this?

103

:

Melody Gutierrez: We found that

there were a lot of the same

104

:

names popping up over and over.

105

:

So, you know, in the absence of

a pet store being able to sell

106

:

in bulk, there are people who

kind of took over that market.

107

:

Um, and these are people, like Alene

said, is like, you know, some of them, we

108

:

were going on the websites and it's, you

know, somebody who very much is saying,

109

:

you know, on a breeding website that they

are a breeder of this particular type of

110

:

dog and, you know, they had a steady flow

of dogs available, puppies available.

111

:

In some cases, you know, it was somebody

who would turn and sell them on Craigslist

112

:

or Facebook or, you know, other places

like social media type of places.

113

:

But you were seeing it was

the same names in the story.

114

:

And so we have about, in our

analysis, we were looking at people

115

:

who sold more than 80 dogs, like

who had imported more than 80 dogs.

116

:

Um, you know, those are primarily puppies.

117

:

That's just what the market is, um,

since the, the law changed in:

118

:

So while our California's law

was, uh, passed in:

119

:

delayed until 2019, uh, 2019 was

the first year it was effective.

120

:

And so when we started looking at

these names, you know, there were the

121

:

same people who were really kind of

122

:

the primary importers of dogs.

123

:

There's still a lot of people who

like will import one dog or two dogs.

124

:

That's for themselves.

125

:

But when we're looking at like

bulk purchases like this, it was

126

:

definitely like this is their business.

127

:

DrG: And from what I understand, like

some of your findings were not just

128

:

necessarily about the illegality of

what they're doing, but the condition

129

:

of the animals themselves, right?

130

:

So what did you find as far as like

the, the problems with the transport?

131

:

Alene Tchekmedyian: Well,

some of the conditions start

132

:

from the breeding facility.

133

:

You know, a lot of these breeding

facilities are USDA, which

134

:

conducts regular inspections.

135

:

And so those inspection

reports are available online.

136

:

And there's also like, you know,

more detailed investigative reports

137

:

that you can get through FOIA

request to the federal government.

138

:

We reviewed some of those records as well.

139

:

Um, and some of the conditions of the

breeding facilities that we highlighted

140

:

it that we're sending dogs to California.

141

:

Are just, you know, they have, um,

violation after violation for not,

142

:

you know, getting dogs with illnesses.

143

:

Medical care quickly enough, um, you

know, there's like, open there, there's

144

:

videos and photos from these inspections

and from these complaint investigations

145

:

with dogs with untreated ear infections

or open wounds on their feet, because

146

:

they live on, you know, um, wire crates.

147

:

Um, and so that was pretty startling

to see for us, the conditions of

148

:

some of these facilities and the

violations that continue to come and

149

:

that they're cited for and allowed

to continue to operate after that.

150

:

DrG: Yeah, so basically, I mean, they

separate these, these puppies from

151

:

their mom at a very early age and they

have to, legally, they have to wait

152

:

until they're eight weeks of age, but

realistically, I mean, they can falsify

153

:

records and make the puppies be born at

a different time, like, even even the,

154

:

the records can be mishandled to, to be

able to sell an animal at a younger age.

155

:

And these dogs are, are very vulnerable.

156

:

I mean, they, we're talking about

tiny infant puppies that who knows

157

:

what the, you know, if they've been

eating properly, having proper water,

158

:

nutrition, medication, a lot of these

breeders just do their own vaccines.

159

:

They do their own treatments for things.

160

:

And then they're taking all of these

puppies with vulnerable immune systems

161

:

and shoving them into a vehicle and

then transporting them for, you know,

162

:

like so many miles and miles and miles.

163

:

Where, where are the, the most

common places where you saw these

164

:

animals were being bred, uh, to

be transported to California?

165

:

Melody Gutierrez: We're definitely seeing,

I mean, Midwest, um, which is, you know,

166

:

where our concentration definitely is

for larger mass breeding facilities.

167

:

But what actually surprised

us was the number in Ohio.

168

:

Um, that has been a number, you know,

most states, we saw a decrease since the

169

:

law went into effect, um, for, you know,

places that are mass breeding facilities,

170

:

they want to sell in bulk, right?

171

:

Like they're, that's their business

model is to sell the puppies in bulk.

172

:

They don't want to sell.

173

:

Individually to consumers, that's

not typically their model for

174

:

some of these larger facilities.

175

:

They can sell to the broker

who could then do that.

176

:

But for the most part, like you were

seeing these numbers decline other

177

:

than Ohio, which we saw, you know,

quite a large increase in the number of

178

:

puppies coming from Ohio into California

in the aftermath of the law change.

179

:

Um, but, you know, I think to your

point on like how they're getting

180

:

to California, the transportation

part is like incredibly fascinating.

181

:

And we did.

182

:

You know, when we went to the

Midwest, we were going to these

183

:

veterinary clinics, um, and knocking

on the door of breeding facilities

184

:

and trying to see for ourselves.

185

:

Right.

186

:

And it's not the, uh, open door

policy that, uh, you might hope.

187

:

Um, but when we were watching the white

vans pull up to veterinary clinics and,

188

:

you know, you're seeing, like, even in

the records, how many documents are signed

189

:

per day for puppies just for California.

190

:

Like it's.

191

:

It's, you know, obvious that like this is

a health certificate, but the, you know,

192

:

it did make us question like, you know,

what does this exam look like if they're

193

:

able to get through that many puppies

and put them in these transport vans?

194

:

It's a, you know, from Missouri to

California is a two day straight drive.

195

:

Driving partners, uh, drive straight

through, drive back, you know,

196

:

there were just so many questions

about, like, how that process works.

197

:

And you're right, like, for a

vulnerable small puppy to go from,

198

:

uh, you know, in the case of a, uh,

a bad breeding facility, then to a

199

:

transport for two days into California,

and then when they get here, and,

200

:

you know, where are they being kept?

201

:

Because that's one of the things that

we were looking at in this investigation

202

:

is, um, You know, without, um, with these

records not being readily available,

203

:

there really is no one checking to see

where they're ending up and how, what

204

:

the conditions are at the places that,

you know, that are selling these dogs.

205

:

And in one case that we highlighted,

it was a very hot garage where

206

:

animals were clearly suffering.

207

:

DrG: You know, we have, there are, there

are laws for like livestock that they can

208

:

only be transported for a certain amount

of time and then they have to be fed and

209

:

watered and they have to be exercised.

210

:

And with these puppies being in these

vans, which I'm assuming they're just

211

:

unmarked vans, there's nobody that's

going to be making sure that these

212

:

puppies are being given any food or water.

213

:

I'm sure that they're not getting

taken out of the cages and exercised

214

:

or being allowed to, to move around.

215

:

Um, so they're, Most likely sitting in

their own filth in whatever condition

216

:

these vehicles are for, you know, you

said two days from Missouri and then

217

:

add another, uh, what, 16 hours or so

from Ohio, if they're coming from here.

218

:

Melody Gutierrez: Yeah, it's definitely

an interesting thing to look at.

219

:

Like, and I know transporters are, you

know, typically, I think, um, USDA.

220

:

Certified and I know

there are inspections.

221

:

It doesn't mean that there's an

inspection, obviously, of every van

222

:

taking off from those, uh, those hubs,

which is really also another interesting

223

:

thing to watch is like these like

vans pulling in on like delivery days.

224

:

And like, it's it's a well oiled

machine in certain communities in the

225

:

Midwest that one of the places that we

highlighted West Point, Iowa, you know,

226

:

we use this statistic that there are,

you know, more breeding dogs than people.

227

:

Like, it's just, there was a really

startling, um, fact there, like, that

228

:

it's clearly a very prominent business

in that, like, small community.

229

:

DrG: As I have been looking

into puppy mills and, and these

230

:

individuals who are definitely not

breeding for, For the health and

231

:

for the betterment of the breed.

232

:

It's literally all for profit.

233

:

I have seen a lot of these very high

volume breeders and brokers that

234

:

are coming from Iowa and they're

just, you know, picking up animals

235

:

from all over the place and then

236

:

taking them to, to different locations

and when, and yeah, when you go

237

:

into the USDA, it's very difficult

to navigate the USDA system, partly

238

:

because of how it's set up, but then

also because some of these breeders

239

:

and brokers just change their name.

240

:

So if they get enough issues,

then they just change their name

241

:

and they're, it's a clean slate.

242

:

So when you look into their,

their past history, you're not

243

:

going to find any, any problems.

244

:

Right.

245

:

Um, It's going to make it really difficult

to, to look, you know, to, to find and be

246

:

able to report and do something about it.

247

:

Melody Gutierrez: Yeah.

248

:

We saw an example of a person who

essentially, uh, Michelle Kruse,

249

:

um, which is a last name that's

pretty popular in, uh, Iowa because

250

:

of Steve Kruse, who's a large, um,

uh, you know, puppy mill operator.

251

:

But in the paperwork, we couldn't figure

out a name change to Julia Nichols.

252

:

And like, ultimately we had it confirmed,

like that's her middle name and maiden

253

:

name or something along those lines.

254

:

But, you know, just, we couldn't,

we thought those were two

255

:

people for a really long time.

256

:

Alene Tchekmedyian: Also the

address is listed on their licenses.

257

:

They are allowed to use like

a mailing address or a PO box.

258

:

And so we found a case in Indiana

where there's like 16 breeders that

259

:

are using the same two suites in a

shopping center that's nowhere near

260

:

like, well, we don't know where the

facilities are, but it's definitely not

261

:

the address listed on their license.

262

:

So it's hard to figure out where these

facilities are operating or under what

263

:

conditions because of that as well.

264

:

DrG: You would think that the license

is going to have the facility address.

265

:

Because how, how does the

USDA know where to go?

266

:

Alene Tchekmedyian: I mean, I think the

inspectors have the facility address

267

:

because they have to, you know, go there

and conduct their regular inspections,

268

:

but what's available to the public

is whatever address they're allowed

269

:

to put on, you know, their license.

270

:

And so for the public, it's, there's

kind of a lack of transparency there.

271

:

Melody Gutierrez: And definitely,

but when you're trying to

272

:

find their inspection reports.

273

:

And you're seeing like the same

names or they're using a new

274

:

company name without an address.

275

:

It's really hard to figure out.

276

:

Is this the right person?

277

:

And am I looking at the

right inspection report?

278

:

Um, for this individual, because it's

just it's sometimes very difficult

279

:

to understand, like, when, you know,

there's a, you know, over:

280

:

um, you know, licensed by the USDA

of breeders, transporters, and like

281

:

being able to narrow down, like, you

know, which person with the last name

282

:

Smith, am I looking at, um, you have to

have an address to really confirm it.

283

:

DrG: What were some of the issues that

you found on the USDA reports from

284

:

some of these breeders and brokers that

were, that you were seeing commonly in

285

:

your, in your, In your investigation.

286

:

Melody Gutierrez: Yeah, I think it's

one like thing to like read through the

287

:

inspections, and it feels completely

different when you see the pictures

288

:

and videos, um, and I, I understand

like that, like, there are, it's just

289

:

difficult sometimes to fully like explain

like some of the, you know, you know,

290

:

a bloody incision from a, you know,

uh, former like, uh, insemination,

291

:

like, and like what that looks like

when it's pooling on the ground.

292

:

And when you see the video of that, it's

absolutely like, you know, gut wrenching.

293

:

And in this, like, in our story, I know,

like, we were trying to, you know, include

294

:

some images, but honestly, like, some

of them were without a description of,

295

:

like, you know, warning graphic content.

296

:

It was not, we weren't going to

be able to, like, put that online.

297

:

Um, and even the ones that we do have in

there, I've heard from some people that

298

:

they were so upsetting that they couldn't,

like, continue reading the story.

299

:

Um, which I think I don't

think that that's true.

300

:

I think everyone should still

read the story by the way.

301

:

Um, yes, but you know, like, I think

that in those inspection reports, you

302

:

do see like that some individuals can

have citation, uh, you know, be cited

303

:

over and over and over for failing

to get their dog's veterinary care.

304

:

Um, and that they just

continue to operate.

305

:

DrG: Yeah, and the biggest issue

that, like, I have found is when

306

:

I'm looking at all these reports is

that they will find something that

307

:

needs corrected and then they give

them the opportunity to correct it.

308

:

And then they come back and a lot

of these evaluations are announced,

309

:

so they know when they're coming.

310

:

So then they know, oh, when they were

here last time, this dog was injured

311

:

and it had open wounds and it's

still looking horrible, so we're just

312

:

gonna get rid of this dog altogether.

313

:

Yeah.

314

:

So then when they come into the

investigation, Hey, a problem is solved.

315

:

So then they'll mark it down as

the, the issue has been corrected.

316

:

And then they'll find other issues.

317

:

Well, these are new issues,

not the other issues.

318

:

So then we're going to give

you another, you know, 30, 90

319

:

days to correct that issue.

320

:

And then that just allows these,

these breeders and brokers that are

321

:

constantly having problems to stay open.

322

:

Like their, their licenses just never

get taken out unless it's like a really,

323

:

really egregious problem that they do.

324

:

Alene Tchekmedyian: Yeah, one of the

people Melody mentioned, Steve Kruse,

325

:

who's in West Point, Iowa has, I mean,

the, the biggest, you know, punishment

326

:

that we saw for him after, you know,

all these pretty bad violations that

327

:

we reviewed on the inspection reports

was a 21 day , uh, suspension and

328

:

after that was over back in business.

329

:

DrG: Right, because that, that

just means basically 21 days

330

:

that he cannot sell or purchase.

331

:

But it's not like he has to get rid

of the animals that he has, right?

332

:

So it's just really a 21 day break,

would you say, on doing his business?

333

:

Alene Tchekmedyian: Exactly.

334

:

Melody Gutierrez: In that case, it's

a little different because he has

335

:

an arrangement with a former, uh,

business partner and the business

336

:

partner actually whelps the puppies.

337

:

And so the business partner

could still sell those puppies.

338

:

He just, uh, Steve Kruse just couldn't

transfer new dogs to him during that time,

339

:

but they're on the same property operating

as like, like in this arrangement.

340

:

And so I don't know, like, you know, that

we know whether or not it like actually

341

:

hurt his bottom line, because if he

had transferred enough dogs over to be

342

:

whelped, it might not have been a huge

difference in, um, in that punishment.

343

:

DrG: Yeah, and if the paperwork

is not being monitored properly,

344

:

then at any point they can say,

no, these were my puppies, right?

345

:

Like they can just assume ownership.

346

:

I mean, he, realistically, he can

just give up ownership to somebody

347

:

else during that, during that process.

348

:

And then the other person is free to

do whatever they want with them, like

349

:

sell them or, you know, whatever.

350

:

Melody Gutierrez: Yeah, I think, like, the

biggest thing for me in this investigation

351

:

is, like, for me, like, I think most

people know puppy mills are bad, right?

352

:

Like, they, like, no one, like, wants

to buy a puppy mill, like, a dog from a

353

:

puppy mill, um, and, like, the enforcement

of them is definitely, you know, You

354

:

know, something that like nationally

is like a concern for a lot of people.

355

:

And it's the way that these dogs end up

in people's homes and they have no idea

356

:

that they have now supported a puppy mill.

357

:

Like that was really interesting to me.

358

:

It's just, the system is designed to,

like, create this opaqueness that, like,

359

:

makes it very difficult to understand,

like, where is this pipeline and, like,

360

:

and did you just contribute to an industry

that you, like, say you don't support?

361

:

Alene Tchekmedyian: I was just going

to say also, just that people don't

362

:

necessarily also know kind of how lax

some of the rules are, like the Animal

363

:

Welfare Act, you know, the requirements

for how you keep your dogs and, you

364

:

know, you're allowed to breed them

over and over again without limit.

365

:

Um, you know, as long as the cage

is big enough, they can pretty much

366

:

spend their entire lives in there.

367

:

Um, so I don't think that, people

necessarily realize that and when you

368

:

say puppy mill, they might think illegal,

but it's not necessarily illegal.

369

:

Some in some cases, they might be right.

370

:

But these are for the most part licensed

facilities that are operating this way.

371

:

DrG: Yeah, I mean, it's legal

animal neglect and cruelty.

372

:

It's the best way to say.

373

:

It's you have all these animals.

374

:

Yeah, I often I often compare it

to hoarding cases because hoarders

375

:

will maintain animals in the same

ways, and sometimes not even as bad

376

:

as some of these puppy mills do.

377

:

However a hoarder is legally liable

for the neglect that these animals

378

:

are suffering for the lack of

proper care and for the lack of You

379

:

Proper space of a clean environment.

380

:

But then these breeders are allowed to

do the same thing that a hoarder does.

381

:

And it is okay because

it's a for profit business.

382

:

Melody Gutierrez: Yeah, one of the

things that we really wanted to do was

383

:

see what it looks like in person, right?

384

:

Like that was one of our goals

and so we did knock on the door

385

:

of many different facilities.

386

:

We got like a sneak peek into one like

before you close the door really fast.

387

:

And like, that was, um, I don't think

you fully understand what a, what the

388

:

noise sounds like in a facility that

has, you know, over a hundred, uh,

389

:

breeding dogs and in stacked cages.

390

:

Like that, that noise and

smell is so overwhelming.

391

:

Um, the, the man came out and

like these like large, like

392

:

noise canceling headphones.

393

:

Um, you know, and we did go to

a, a dog auction in Missouri.

394

:

Um, and I think that that was the

way that we could really see like.

395

:

the behavior differences in a dog, um,

when they live, when they've been a

396

:

breeding dog their entire lives, uh,

they, they just fundamentally don't act

397

:

like a dog that you had ever like seen.

398

:

Um, like you go up to the cage

and you could check out the

399

:

animals in this, um, this auction.

400

:

You could walk up and you can, you

know, I, I, I'm guessing it's for the

401

:

people who were going to be either

bidding on them or, uh, the rescues.

402

:

Uh, there are some rescues that go

and like get dogs there, but also it's

403

:

other breeders looking for new stock.

404

:

Um, and the animals themselves, like

it was, I mean, Alene and I had a real

405

:

hard time, like seeing what the animals

were behaving like, um, the way that

406

:

they don't make eye contact, they hide

at the back of their cage and just

407

:

like, are like, absolutely frightened.

408

:

And there were some that

were spinning in circles.

409

:

There was one that like, you know,

was missing some toes and like, um,

410

:

uh, like, you know, it was still

expected to breed like, you know, and

411

:

like, what was it standing properly?

412

:

Um, so it was, that

was really eye opening.

413

:

And then we did go to a,

uh, a larger facility.

414

:

Um, that I think it was

Bernie doodles that they did.

415

:

Um, but, you know, and it was a large

facility, but this family, like their

416

:

dogs acted like dogs, like, it's just

was like, such a stark difference when

417

:

you're there and you're seeing like,

the difference between these facilities

418

:

and like on paper they might look

the same because they both have a lot

419

:

of dogs, but like there was a huge

difference in the behavior of the dogs.

420

:

DrG: Yeah, it's really

important for people.

421

:

You know, I'm, I'm a

big shelter proponent.

422

:

So I think that people

should go to shelters.

423

:

Not that everybody has this, this idea

that there's only big dogs in shelters.

424

:

There's only pit bulls in shelters.

425

:

And what the truth is that there is

every type of dog, big dogs, little dogs.

426

:

There's so many doodles.

427

:

The doodles are being so overbred.

428

:

So they're ending up in, up in shelters.

429

:

And people say, well, I don't want

a dog from a shelter because I

430

:

don't know where it's come from.

431

:

I want to get it from a breeder.

432

:

Well, do you really know where this

dog from a breeder has come from?

433

:

Right?

434

:

You need to, and you got to see that.

435

:

First hand that you need to see the

environment where they come from, you

436

:

need to see the parents, you need to

see how they're being taken care of,

437

:

how you know how they act, how just

overall the situation because when

438

:

you meet somebody in a parking lot

to pick up a dog, you have no idea

439

:

where that dog has come from, right?

440

:

Alene Tchekmedyian: Yeah, and we

definitely talked to a bunch of

441

:

people who did buy dogs in parking

lots and, you know, their dog,

442

:

when they took it home, got sick.

443

:

And, um, in many cases, they realized

that they didn't really know much about

444

:

the person who sold the dog to them.

445

:

Um, it was maybe a fake

name, a burner phone number.

446

:

So when they tried to reach out again,

the person essentially just disappeared.

447

:

Melody Gutierrez: And I will say that the

people that we talked to, Many of them

448

:

thought they were doing the right thing.

449

:

Like, yeah, they did fall for the picture

and right, like the picture sells itself.

450

:

The puppy will sell itself every

time, but they believed the words

451

:

that the person had told them.

452

:

They believed it really was spoiled

their, uh, you know, first and only

453

:

litter, like all of these kinds of

keywords that are truly meant to like,

454

:

put somebody at ease and make them

think they're making a smart choice.

455

:

And, you know, it's really not until

that dog gets sick and they, you know,

456

:

the breeder turns out to be like a

ghost breeder and like there's no

457

:

recourse because you can't find them.

458

:

DrG: Reading through your report,

and I really encourage our listeners

459

:

to, you know, check out the LA Times

and read the entire report, because

460

:

there's so much good information.

461

:

One of the people that you were

investigating was this Monique

462

:

Matthews, and it sounds like she

was one of these people that was

463

:

selling at parking lots as well.

464

:

Alright, can you tell us a little

bit about her operation and how

465

:

she ended up getting in trouble?

466

:

Alene Tchekmedyian: Yeah, so she, um,

was, yes, meeting people in public places,

467

:

parking lots, parks, um, and selling dogs.

468

:

She used aliases.

469

:

She never really gave her real

name, at least in recent years.

470

:

Um, and, you know, we talked

to people who bought dogs from

471

:

her whose dogs ended up sick.

472

:

And in one case, the dog

actually died after 11 days.

473

:

And that was very, very heartbreaking.

474

:

Um, she, we found, was using

aliases on these certificates

475

:

of veterinary inspection.

476

:

Um, and we were able to link.

477

:

Almost 1000 dogs to her operations

over the years since:

478

:

these various aliases, that are on the

records, um, and a lot of times she

479

:

was getting them from Iowa, Missouri,

um, Kansas in a couple instances.

480

:

And it was actually a pet transporter

who delivered a Boston Terrier to her in

481

:

2021, uh, was going inside to, to drop

off the dog and saw the conditions of,

482

:

of the rest of the animals in there.

483

:

There were dogs and cats in small cages.

484

:

It was very, very hot in the garage

sweltering and there was no water

485

:

for the dogs and he was just so

overcome with emotion and anger

486

:

seeing this, uh, this garage.

487

:

And he struggled with actually

leaving the facility, leaving

488

:

these dogs unattended in there.

489

:

And he vowed to himself that when he got

back to Missouri, he was going to call

490

:

animal control and report the neglect.

491

:

And when he did, they moved very quickly

later that day, they got a search warrant

492

:

and seized all of the dogs in the garage.

493

:

And she was charged with animal cruelty.

494

:

Um, in a case that, you know,

went over the course of a couple

495

:

of years and recently resolved.

496

:

Um, and actually during that

case, the judge decided that she

497

:

should not possess any animals.

498

:

She shouldn't like over the course

of her case, she, she's not allowed.

499

:

He ordered her not to possess any animals,

even her personal pets at that point.

500

:

Um, but her name continued or those

aliases that we identified continued

501

:

to show up on the health certificates.

502

:

So she was still getting

dogs during that time.

503

:

And in one case, we actually, um, one

of her client's relatives set up, a

504

:

buy with her and we ended up showing up

instead and tried to interview her there.

505

:

And this was when she was under

court order not to possess animals.

506

:

She was still trying to sell dogs.

507

:

And then, recently this past summer,

she was, um, she actually pleaded

508

:

guilty to those animal cruelty charges

for the conditions in the garage and

509

:

was sentenced to 90 days, which she

could do in a like a work release

510

:

program in some community service.

511

:

And the case is now, you know, now over.

512

:

DrG: Was there any mention

as far as her USDA license?

513

:

Like is she, did she lose her license?

514

:

Is she able to get licensed again ever?

515

:

Alene Tchekmedyian: Yeah,

she does not have a license.

516

:

She was selling dogs to people

in person and not, I don't

517

:

believe she was breeding them.

518

:

Um, although she was telling people

that she was the breeder of the dogs.

519

:

DrG: So she was, okay, so hold on.

520

:

So she was getting dogs from,

she was getting dogs brought in

521

:

to her from these, uh, brokers.

522

:

And then she was selling

them without a license.

523

:

Is that right?

524

:

Melody Gutierrez: Yeah.

525

:

And because she's selling them in

person, I think that that's one of the

526

:

areas that doesn't require a license.

527

:

DrG: You know, from a, from a perspective,

a legal perspective, like clearly we

528

:

care about the animals, we care about

the condition of the animals, the

529

:

health of the animals, the fact that

they're neglected and suffering, you

530

:

know, some of these dogs are dying.

531

:

But then on the other side too,

we got to look at I say like

532

:

consumer protection, right?

533

:

Because what are, what recourses are there

for these people who are spending probably

534

:

hundreds and thousands of dollars buying

these purebred dogs in a parking lot and,

535

:

you know, getting, getting sick animals?

536

:

Like, you know, these laws, I'm sure,

again, are meant to protect animals,

537

:

but they need to be upheld just so

they can protect consumers as well.

538

:

Melody Gutierrez: Yeah, I mean, it's hard

to have any kind of recourse if, if the

539

:

person's given you a fake name, and so one

of the things, you know, beyond, you know,

540

:

being able to see the parents of those

dogs and being adamant that you need to

541

:

see at least the, the, I mean, I'll take

your advice on this too, but like, I'm

542

:

assuming the mother dog like you need to

see that a dog has recently given like,

543

:

you know, there's a way to tell like that

544

:

this is obviously the mom like you can

tell that she's recently nursed the

545

:

puppies And it can't just be you know a

dog that doesn't, you know, that's there.

546

:

Like, I think that that's like some of

the things that I've heard from people

547

:

is like, well, you know, I saw the

parents and, you know, it makes you

548

:

question, like, did, did you like, I

mean, it might not have been, but beyond

549

:

seeing, like, you know, the parent dogs

and not relying on a picture, um, being

550

:

able to see them and like conditions,

you know, I think like, even just

551

:

asking for like, let me see your ID.

552

:

Like, let me, let me actually know that

the person that you are is the person

553

:

that, like, I'm buying a dog from.

554

:

DrG: Uh, during the course of your

investigation, did you interview

555

:

any legitimate breeders and get

their, you know, see what they

556

:

think about this whole thing?

557

:

Melody Gutierrez: Yeah, we, um,

in, uh, I think it was Missouri.

558

:

We met with one that is a larger

scale one and sat down with them

559

:

and, you know, talk to them about

like what their thoughts are.

560

:

And, um, you know, we did definitely

try to reach out to, to regular like

561

:

breeders in California too, but, um,

we did focus mostly on these, um,

562

:

They're really not breeders, right?

563

:

Like, there are people who are

importing dogs or these middlemen,

564

:

um, and sort of detailing, like, this

pipeline to people, like, who think

565

:

that they're buying from a breeder.

566

:

Um, you know, the Boston Terrier that

Alene mentioned that was delivered to

567

:

that garage of Monique Matthews, you

know, we could see on its paperwork

568

:

that it, you know, was an Indiana

breeder to an Indiana broker to a

569

:

Missouri travel, um, uh, transportation

company, then to Norco in California.

570

:

That pipeline, like, I had no idea

that this wasn't a straight line

571

:

from like a breeder to, uh, you know,

to these, uh, places in California.

572

:

Like it's, it's quite the, the

journey in those first days

573

:

and weeks of a puppy's life.

574

:

DrG: Yeah.

575

:

One of the things that I have

seen, especially like in, in places

576

:

that do allow the retail sale of

puppies is that they will see the

577

:

puppies that come out of the van.

578

:

And then they'll look at a puppy

and say, Oh, this puppy has a health

579

:

condition or has a congenital problem.

580

:

You know, like the knees are, are, are

not in place or it has whatever issue.

581

:

And they'll say, I don't want this puppy.

582

:

And then they'll just put it back

in the van and then go to the next

583

:

place and the next place and the next

place until they find the, the one.

584

:

seller that doesn't mind that

the puppy has these problems.

585

:

Because unfortunately, by the time

somebody purchases a dog, and then

586

:

the dog starts having problems, the

dog is sick, or, you know, months

587

:

down the line starts showing symptoms

of some congenital problem, the

588

:

person is attached to them, right?

589

:

So there, it's not like they're going

to be able to just give it back.

590

:

Alene Tchekmedyian: Yeah, no, we actually

talked to people who were advised by

591

:

vets, like, you should go back and return

this puppy, and the people Uh, we're just

592

:

like, no, this is part of my family now.

593

:

And, you know, if I return

her that, like, what is that?

594

:

I don't want to return this dog to

those conditions where they came from.

595

:

Um, you know, at this point I want

to nurse them back to health and

596

:

give them a good life because of.

597

:

it's just, it would just be too hard

to, to return them to those conditions.

598

:

Melody Gutierrez: It's really

unrealistic to, I mean, anybody who's

599

:

been attached to a pet, the idea

of handing back a puppy and saying,

600

:

nevermind, like this one's too hard.

601

:

Like I just, It breaks your heart.

602

:

Like, I mean, even with some of the lemon

laws, like that do exist, like, you know,

603

:

one of the recourses in some of those

are to return the puppy for a new one.

604

:

And that just, I don't think

that that jives with how

605

:

people relate and love pets.

606

:

DrG: There are some people in rescue

that call them greeders instead of

607

:

breeders because it is driven by greed,

you know, and, and people like, like

608

:

this woman that even though she had.

609

:

Like, by law, she was not allowed

to be doing anything with these

610

:

animals, but she was still doing it.

611

:

It's because, you know, the money's there.

612

:

It's just greed driving

them to do these things.

613

:

Alene Tchekmedyian: The

repercussions aren't aren't

614

:

necessarily that strong either.

615

:

Melody Gutierrez: One of the things that

we were really excited about with this

616

:

investigation was being able to take

these records and pull the microchips off

617

:

the records and give consumers a chance

to see, like, whether or not their dog

618

:

was purchased, uh, from out of state.

619

:

And so that has the opportunity in

some of these cases where people are

620

:

pretending to be breeders, you know, if,

if an individual has a contract saying

621

:

I am buying from this person, this is

the breeder and they're able to find the

622

:

microchip in our system, I mean, that,

that definitely would point to like,

623

:

you know, uh, consumer fraud there, like

there, there are true issues with that.

624

:

And I think that the reason that this

industry has been able to, you know, yeah.

625

:

allow these like fake breeders to

exist is that like finding that

626

:

information is very difficult.

627

:

But a microchip is, you know,

a unique identifier and these

628

:

records hopefully will help people.

629

:

Um, you know, it also

includes some from pet stores.

630

:

And so if somebody got a dog, um,

you know, rescued a dog, uh, went

631

:

to a shelter and fell in love, um,

and you could potentially find, you

632

:

know, what was your dog's story?

633

:

What's your dog's real birthday?

634

:

Like, you know, there are some

really interesting, you know,

635

:

details on these records that I think

consumers would really benefit from.

636

:

DrG: So if any of our listeners

are interested in checking if

637

:

their animal came from one of these

places, like how can they, how

638

:

can they look into this database?

639

:

Melody Gutierrez: Uh, so it's the Pets

for Profit is the name of our series

640

:

and in there is our database, um, that

you could put your information in.

641

:

Um, we also have a, a tool underneath

this database after putting, uh, we're

642

:

only including the 15 digit, um, microchip

numbers, uh, that's just the most popular

643

:

and easiest to, to add into there.

644

:

You know, there are several thousand

microchips in there and we're hoping to,

645

:

to help consumers figure out if, like, if

they unknowingly bought from a puppy mill.

646

:

DrG: So what would you say, you

know, in, in summary, what's the

647

:

biggest take home message that you

wanna give your, your readers and our

648

:

listeners as far as this investigation?

649

:

Alene Tchekmedyian: I, I hope that

we're able to educate readers about what

650

:

questions to ask and what to look for,

red flags to look for when they are trying

651

:

to get a new, add a pet to their family.

652

:

Melody Gutierrez: Yeah, I think that,

you know, there are, the shelters are

653

:

overflowing in California and there's

lots of great options there for, for

654

:

somebody who wants to adopt a pet.

655

:

And, you know, for those who are, you

know, wanting to, you know, purchase

656

:

a pet from a breeder that, that you

have to be vigilant, you have to,

657

:

you know, go into it thinking that

maybe like everything that this person

658

:

might be telling you might not be

true and you have to be skeptical.

659

:

Um, and I think it was in one of your

previous podcasts where you had, um,

660

:

where someone had mentioned, um, you

know, that you might not know as much

661

:

as you think you do about this dog.

662

:

Like you might actually have the exact

same amount of information as you

663

:

would for a dog you get at a shelter.

664

:

Um, and so I think being like

understanding that you might, you know,

665

:

you, there's a lot of skepticism that

has to happen in this market right now.

666

:

DrG: And for anybody that wants

to get more information as well,

667

:

check out Bailing out Benji,

it's just bailing out benji.

668

:

com.

669

:

Mindy and her team do a fantastic job

as far as trying to find these areas.

670

:

They have lists of breeders and brokers

that there have been, there have

671

:

been problems with, uh, you know, if

somebody's telling you, oh, I only have

672

:

a small group of dogs, you can go and

then you can see if that's true or not.

673

:

Like some of these people that say

that they're small breeding facilities,

674

:

they'll have over 300 animals.

675

:

And if you can think about it,

You know, even like shelters with

676

:

50 animals and a lot of people,

they have a hard time keeping them

677

:

clean and taking care of them.

678

:

We're talking about hundreds and hundreds

of these animals that these people are

679

:

keeping supposedly in good condition.

680

:

So yeah, be, get informed, learn about,

you know, where you're getting your

681

:

animal and we have to get away from the

mentality that just because it's from a

682

:

breeder, we know that where it came from

and that it has a good lineage because

683

:

that's just unfortunately not the case.

684

:

Well, thank you for being here.

685

:

Thank you for writing the story

because we need to we need to educate

686

:

consumers and we need to educate people.

687

:

The consumers hold all the power to

shutting these puppy mills down and

688

:

to shutting these these retailers and

individuals that are selling dogs.

689

:

So I'm hoping to to see where

this goes, and maybe in the not so

690

:

distant future, you will be writing

another investigative report about

691

:

how this has made a difference.

692

:

Melody Gutierrez: Thank you so much.

693

:

Thank you.

694

:

DrG: Thank you for being here.

695

:

And for our listeners thank you for

listening and thank you for caring.

Next Episode All Episodes Previous Episode

Listen for free

Show artwork for The Animal Welfare Junction

About the Podcast

The Animal Welfare Junction
Veterinary Forensics
The Animal Welfare Junction is a podcast developed to bring awareness to different topics in animal welfare. The host, Michelle Gonzalez (Dr. G) is a veterinarian who provides affordable veterinary care in the State of Ohio, and also a Forensic Veterinarian helping with the investigation and prosecution of cases of animal cruelty and neglect.
The topics presented are based on the experiences of Dr. G and our guests and include discussions about real cases, humane projects, and legal issues that affect animals and the community. Due to the nature of the discussion, listener discretion is advised as some topics may be too strong for some listeners.

About your host

Profile picture for Alba Gonzalez

Alba Gonzalez

Michelle González (DrG) was born and raised in Puerto Rico. Her passion growing up was to become a veterinarian. She obtained a B.S. in Zoology at Michigan State University and the Doctor of Veterinary Medicine degree at The Ohio State University, followed by a 1-yr Internship in Medicine, Surgery, Emergency and Critical Care at the University of Missouri-Columbia. In 2006 she founded the Rascal Unit, a mobile clinic offering accesible and affordable sterilization, and wellness services throughout the State of Ohio.
Dr. G is involved in many aspects of companion veterinary medicine including education, shelter assistance and help to animals that are victims of cruelty and neglect.
DrG completed a Master’s degree in Veterinary Forensics from the University of Florida and a Master’s in Forensic Psychology from Southern New Hampshire University. She is currently enrolled at the University of Florida Forensic Science program. She assists Humane organizations and animal control officers in the investigation, evaluation, and prosecution of cases of animal cruelty and neglect.