Episode 1

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Published on:

22nd May 2025

Season 1: State v Steffen Baldwin / Episode 1: Remi

Season 1: State v Steffen Baldwin / Episode 1: Remi

Steffen Baldwin gained popularity in the State of Ohio as a "dog savior", proclaiming that he could rehabilitate and rehome any dog, including those deemed dangerous and not adoptable. He spent years sharing his "success" stories, but the truth was revealed when one of his victims, Litsa Kargakos, discovered his horrific scheme which claimed the lives of many dogs and hurt the people who cared about them.

In Episode One, Dr. G and Litsa share the story of Remi, his fate, and how it started a long court battle against Baldwin.

Share and Like this episode to help us reach more people! This can happen anywhere, and together we can make a difference in the lives of animals our communities.

Transcript
DrG:

Hi, and welcome to the Animal Welfare Junction.

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This is your host, Dr.

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G.

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And our music is written and

produced by Mike Sullivan.

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So this is episode one of our

season one series, State of

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Ohio versus Steffen Baldwin.

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And this episode is named Remi, which is

appropriate since Remi was the catalyst

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that started this whole investigation.

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So to our listeners, this series is

gonna talk about sensitive topics such

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as animal abuse and domestic violence.

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So please take care of yourself and if

any part of this podcast is hard for you

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to listen, take a break, and come back.

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Or just hit the fast forward button.

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Now don't be worried because

you're not gonna be caught by

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surprise with these topics.

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We will have a warning ahead.

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So, um, I wanna introduce you

to our first guest, which is

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Litsa, who was Remi's owner.

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Thank you for being here, Litsa.

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Litsa Kargakos: My name is Litsa Kargakos.

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Um, I've been involved in

animal rescue since I was a

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child in some form or another.

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What got us heavily involved with having

our own rescue was a dog named Petey, and

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he was a pit bull American bulldog mix.

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Um, he was, when he was seized in an

abuse case, he was heartworm positive.

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He was completely emaciated.

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His muzzle was duct taped

when they seized him.

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So, needless to say, he

had some behavior issues.

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Um, we went to Animal Charity.

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They were, they had seized 130 little

dogs and we went to just make a donation.

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And I see this dog and his, he had, they

have a funnel to feed him because nobody

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could, there were only two people that

could handle him from what we were told.

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Um, it had a sign, they had a shot,

clear shower curtain over his like, run.

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And they had a sign that said,

do not touch heartworm positive.

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Um, so I promised this dog that I was

gonna get him out and out of like,

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everybody was going into all these little

dogs and they had pit bull puppies.

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And of course, I'm attracted to this dog.

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This is the dog that I wanna help.

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And I leave there in tears and I tell

my husband, I gotta save this dog.

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He's like, how the hell are we

gonna save this dog when nobody

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could even get near this dog?

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I'm like, I don't know.

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I'll figure it out, but I promised him.

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He's like, this dog has no

idea what you promised him.

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We have no way of getting this dog.

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What are we gonna do with him?

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So fast forward a whole bunch of

red tape and begging and pleading.

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I emailed rescues literally all across

the country, and at this point I already

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had like a few thousand dollars in pledges

from people that were willing to go

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ahead and donate if he was saved for his

heartworm treatment and things like that.

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I had a really, really

hard time finding a rescue.

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Um, we did pull him and I told the

rescue to sign him over to me as soon

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as we leave the building, you know,

I'll accept all liability on this dog.

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And he, he took to me instantly.

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He like, let me rub his belly.

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He just, I think he figured I'm the only

one that was getting him outta there.

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Um, it took my husband though two

months, literally two months of going

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to see this dog every single day,

'cause we did put him in boarding,

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um, for probably about two months.

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A friend of mine owns a local

pet resort and she had him in a

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run that was off from everything.

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And two of the girls there were

fine, absolutely fine with him.

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He seemed to do a little bit better with

women, especially a little bit smaller.

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He didn't like anybody that was loud or

large, I think because of his history.

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So this dog ended up becoming

like for us, the best dog that

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you could possibly ask for.

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He loved everybody in the house.

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He loved the dogs, he loved the cats.

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And that was kind of like such an

eyeopener for me, how there's not a lot

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of rescues that wanna commit to these

dogs that need a little bit of work.

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So that's where my passion with

dogs that weren't easily adoptable,

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really, really came from.

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DrG: That's awesome because it

takes a special kind of person

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to adopt these, these dogs.

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Right?

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And one of the things that I, that I

don't like about some organizations

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is that they want to get these

dogs that need work to people that

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are not properly prepared to it.

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And you have to be the right

home, the right environment.

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If not, it can be a complete disaster.

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Litsa Kargakos: Oh, absolutely.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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DrG: Like how do you manage having, having

multiple dogs that need special care?

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Litsa Kargakos: Um, I mean,

it depends on the situation.

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We don't any dog that we've ever pulled,

when we had our rescue, we never pulled

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more than we knew that if we had to care

for and keep them for life, it was fine.

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Like when Petey was in boarding,

we had somebody who was interested.

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He was a single guy, he was a smaller guy.

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He spoke very softly.

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He would've been, you know, a good

home that we thought for Petey.

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And when I saw Petey's reaction, like

he was okay for a short period of time

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with him, and then I saw his personality

change and right there I knew that I would

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never be comfortable putting Petey in

a home with anybody else regardless how

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much he flourished, you know, in a year.

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If he was a different dog, I

wasn't comfortable with it.

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Um, so it kind of just catered to

every dog based on their needs.

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So we had quite a few dogs that

were just very confident dogs.

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They were very mellow dogs.

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If a dog reacted towards

them, they were non-reactive.

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And I honestly have to say that

was probably the biggest benefit to

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us bringing those type of dogs in.

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It was almost like the dogs that had

suffered, you know, this horrendous

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abuse, they kind of fed off of what the

other dogs were, the vibes that they were

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putting out and you know, what they were

feeding from, what they were telling 'em.

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And, you know, their language, their

body language, things like that.

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But that's what I play a big part to it.

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Don't get me wrong, we've had

dogs that haven't gotten along.

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Um, have we had dog fights?

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We have.

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We've had a handful.

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Um, we were always there, thank God.

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Um, we separated, you know,

the dogs that we needed to.

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At one point we had six crates in

the house, so we always did what

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we had to do to keep them safe.

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Um, the one dog, my Lily,

she was one of my pities from

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California, she hated Toula.

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Toula was a Sharpei Shepherd mix and.

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She was like my soul dog.

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This dog was just, she was so

bad, but not like aggressive,

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bad, just like destructive, bad.

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And any barrier that you put up, she got

through, like it was a challenge for her.

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Lily was fine with her for

the six, for six months.

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And then one day I am laying in my bed

and I'm running my bath water and it's

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like, who's gonna get closest to mom?

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And a fight broke out

and Angelo wasn't home.

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I'm like, oh my God, how am

I gonna break these dogs up?

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And ones 65 pounds, one is 75 pounds.

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I'm by myself.

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I grabbed a fire extinguisher and I

was able to, you know, get them apart.

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Toula rushed her to the vet.

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She got stitches, um, a

couple drainage tubes.

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Thank God she was okay.

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But long story short, we

learned from every incident

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and we always made it better.

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So even when Toula went in her

crate, Lily would go after her.

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So then we got like a training

gate and we put around the crate

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when Toula was in her crate.

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We had a gate up in the

middle of our living room.

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Me and Angelo slept separate for 10 years.

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He took Lily to bed.

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I took Toula to bed.

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We did whatever we had to do

to keep these animals safe.

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Cause getting rid of an animal once

I accept responsibility and they're

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my personal dogs, I can't do that.

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I don't believe in that.

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It's like a kid, if you have a child,

in my opinion that you know, has

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some behavior issues that has, you

know, a handicap, you're not just

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gonna go ahead and get rid of 'em.

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So we just modify our lives for them.

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DrG: Yeah, that's something important

of people to also, when they're taking

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these animals and thinking, I'm gonna

foster them and I'm gonna find them a

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home, that that is a possibility that

you get stuck with that dog forever

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and you have to be prepared for that.

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You have to, to plan ahead of

what's gonna happen if you cannot

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find that perfect home for them.

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Litsa Kargakos: You do, you do.

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Like we were, um, fostering one dog that

we pulled another pittie from California.

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We actually pulled him and Lily

at the same time, which this is

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gonna kind of tie into Steffen

and the whole California thing.

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But he was super, super cat aggressive.

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We fostered him.

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We always made sure he wasn't in the

same room with the cats like he would

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get so worked up his nose would bleed

from his anxiety if the cat was near him.

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So we knew if we couldn't find

the perfect home for this dog.

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And he didn't like other dogs.

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Well, he was, I shouldn't say

he didn't like, he was very

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selective with other dogs.

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Like he liked Lily.

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He was fine with Lily, they suspect he

was a previous fighting dog in California.

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So there were different triggers with dogs

that he'd accept and he wouldn't accept.

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So we needed to find a house that had

no cats and a house that had no dogs.

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If not, we knew again, we'd

have to accommodate our lives.

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So what are we gonna do to go ahead

and make sure that the cats are

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safe and that the dogs are safe?

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And luckily we found him an amazing

home with an amazing couple.

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And he just passed away

about a year ago from cancer.

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So he had a really good life.

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He was their first baby.

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DrG: So, let's talk about our boy Remi.

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So when did you become aware of him?

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Litsa Kargakos: I became aware of Remi

from some volunteers had reached out

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from Trumbull County Pound, and they

told me that the warden at the time had

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it out for the volunteers and that she

wanted to go ahead and make an example

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of the dogs there to show the volunteers.

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It was her pound and she

could do what she wants.

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There was, she was a very,

very difficult woman.

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She was a breeder, which to me

is completely hypocritical in the

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position of being a dog warden.

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Like there's all these dogs that are

strays, that people have abandoned.

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And then you're breeding

dogs on the other hand.

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So.

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I probably disliked the woman right

from that point when I found out.

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But a bunch of volunteers had

spoken up because they were actually

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euthanizing dogs on the pound floor

and they weren't certified to do so,

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and they weren't doing it properly.

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And these dogs were suffering for

like five and six hours and they

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had the public coming through and

they were throwing sheets out of

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over these dogs as they were dying.

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So she was just a terrible,

terrible woman in my opinion.

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And she was mad at the volunteers because

they took it to the media and they had

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to do things a little bit different.

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They had to take it to a licensed

vet to be euthanized then.

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And Remi was one of the examples

that she wanted to make.

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And he did bite somebody there.

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But it was, it wasn't Remi's fault.

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I don't blame Remi in the least.

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None of the volunteers blamed Remi.

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They knew he was a resource guarder.

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He was marked as a resource guarder.

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DrG: Can you really quick, I don't

know that our, our audience necessarily

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knows what resource guarding means.

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Sure.

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Can you explain what that means?

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Litsa Kargakos: Sure.

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It's basically anything that they

fixate on that they feel is theirs.

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Um, whether it's a couch that they're

laying on, whether it's a toy that they

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feel that they want, it's theirs, and

getting it from them or getting them

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to surrender it is usually a challenge.

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So if he felt the couch was his

and he was resource guarding that

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you weren't going on that couch.

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So he, um, but he had a Kong in

his crate with, I don't, I, I

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believe he had peanut butter in it.

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And somebody who was doing their

community service put their hand

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in to get this Kong while he was

in his crate, and he reacted.

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But it was literally a drag bite.

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It wasn't, it, I don't

even think it punctured.

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I saw pictures of it.

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It literally, the cat scratch is

much worse than what Remi did.

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So that gave her the fuel to go ahead and

say, Hey, I'm gonna euthanize this dog.

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And she was able to justify it with that.

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So that's when the volunteers

reached out, was after that incident.

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They explained the bite to me.

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I wasn't hesitant when I saw the bite.

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I understood, I was a well

aware resource guarding.

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We've worked with dogs

that had resource guarding.

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It's common with rescue dogs.

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Um, so fast forward we ended up hiring

an attorney to get this dog out because

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the warden was not giving Remi up.

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He, she was adamant she was

gonna go ahead and euthanize.

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And I told the attorney,

do what you gotta do.

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Put a stay order.

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We will take this to court.

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We'll do what we have to do.

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I want to save this dog.

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So she was able to get him released.

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Um, it, but it came with terms, which

was deeming him as a dangerous dog.

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DrG: And what does that mean?

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When a dog is deemed a

dangerous dog in Ohio?

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Litsa Kargakos: It requires

additional liability insurance.

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The dog has to be muzzled

anytime that they're outside.

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They have to be, I believe it's a

six or eight foot fence at all times.

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There has to be, some

areas have to be covered.

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There's a whole list of

restrictions that we had to follow.

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They have to be, if you walk

them, you can't walk them

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with like a material leash.

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It has to be, um, stainless

steel or metal leash.

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There were, there were a lot

of things that made it hard on

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dogs that didn't justify it.

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And getting a dangerous dog

ordinance removed is difficult.

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DrG: So had you met Remi before you

started this whole attorney thing?

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Litsa Kargakos: Nope.

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They wouldn't even let me meet him.

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DrG: So how, you know, so you

get Remi and then what was

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your first impression of him?

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Litsa Kargakos: He was a

gorgeous, beautiful dog.

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His tail was waggin'.

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He was a happy boy.

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I mean, initially you could tell

he just wanted out of there.

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He was like, get me the hell outta here.

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Um, and then when we brought

him home, we had an area set

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up in the basement for him.

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Again, we didn't know if he was cat

reactive, if he was dog reactive.

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He showed no reaction at the pound.

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But once he came into home, different

sounds, different, you know,

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smells, different, things like that.

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We weren't sure.

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So we had an indoor pen in the

basement and we had a kuranda bed,

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blankets, you know, all that stuff

for him until he got neutered.

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And we were able to go ahead and

work him in with our, with our life.

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He got neutered, I wanna say, I

don't know, less than a week later.

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Um, we had the gastropexy done on him.

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We got him neutered.

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And probably within two weeks you

just saw like a huge difference.

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Like when we first got him, he

was urinating on the blankets

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every time I changed them.

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So like four or five times a day

we were putting fresh blankets,

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sanitizing the floor down there.

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And within two weeks

that all started to stop.

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And then you started to

see Remi's personality, his

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true personality come out.

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And he was, he was a trip.

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He was a happy go lucky dog.

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He was very appreciative and grateful

for everything that you gave him.

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Um, he loved toys, he loved his blankets.

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He loved fluff his blankets

before he'd lay down.

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He, he was a good boy.

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He, he was a good boy.

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He showed zero reaction towards the cats.

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He showed zero reaction towards the dogs.

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He was like, just in his own happy world.

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DrG: So how long did you have him before

you decided that, that he needed more

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work than what you were doing with him?

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Litsa Kargakos: It wasn't really

even the work, because we were

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working with Jenny, who I know you're

gonna interview, um, down the road,

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and we worked through his issues.

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Steffen had happened to come

over for an appointment that

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we had set because we believed

everything we saw on social media.

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You know, this guy's a

miracle work group dog.

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He's the dog whisperer, and we

had taken Lily to Jenny and I

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thought, you know what, maybe

there's like a different approach.

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Maybe there's something that we're not

doing to get these two dogs to get along.

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So he, we had scheduled him like

a month or two prior before even

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knowing that Remi existed to come for

Toula and Lily and he had so happened

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to come shortly after we got Remi.

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And he came in the Remi, it was

actually within that first week,

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'cause Remi was still in the basement.

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And he went down and he met him and

he's like, yeah, he is, no problem.

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And he gave us a list for Toula and

Lily of, um, the rating, like how you

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could tell when a dog is super mad,

like that color coded one, which is,

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I mean like, come on, like Google

gives you more information than that.

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It, I, it, there wasn't much,

the visit wasn't long, but that's

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where everything started with Remi.

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That's where he told us, we were talking

about the, um, dangerous dog designation.

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And you know, if Remi got to point that

he was, that we were able to work past

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all of these resource guarding issues and

things like that, how difficult is it to

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have a dangerous dog designation removed?

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And then that's where

the conversation started.

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Normally it's extremely

difficult, but I can do it.

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And he made his offer, which was

if we gave him a thousand dollars.

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Because he was the county Humane agent.

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He can have it removed in Union County.

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DrG: And that was the,

the whole thing, right?

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Like his position of authority and

his position within the Union County

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government, that that's what allowed

him to do something like this that

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would otherwise be very difficult.

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Litsa Kargakos: Absolutely.

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And I mean, I guess looking back now,

being naive with the situation, 'cause

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I never had a dangerous dog before.

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I believed him.

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I di I wasn't aware that

it had to go to court.

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I thought, okay, he's the humane agent.

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You p you petition the county

and this is just removed.

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And that's the way that he portrayed

it when he presented it to us.

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That's exactly how he made it sound.

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This dog's gonna come to Union

County, I'm gonna go ahead and

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I'm gonna get this removed.

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I didn't even know if like just

him being a humane agent, if

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that's how it's just removed.

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Like if he can just remove it on his own.

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And I said to him, I'm like, are you

sure that you can do that that easy?

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He said, yes, it's my county.

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Which again, he literally

said those words.

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And again, I'm thinking, okay,

this guy can have it removed.

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Like it was never a question.

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It never dawned on me that this was a

scam, that he couldn't have it removed.

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Like where would somebody

even think of that?

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Like I had no reason not to believe it.

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DrG: So what was, so you had

to pay him to get it removed.

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Did you have to pay him anything

else for either training or

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boarding or anything like that?

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Litsa Kargakos: No.

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The deal was that he said Remi had to go

under him so that he can go ahead and get

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it removed because he had to be a resident

of Union County, basically Remi to go

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ahead and have it removed in Union County.

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And we paid him the thousand dollars he

was gonna get the designation removed.

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He said he had a huge network.

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He even mentioned his buddy Gordon

Shell, he said, you know, he had

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a lot of connections in Michigan

and that Michigan didn't recognize

370

:

dangerous dog designations from Ohio.

371

:

He said, so if we, whatever comes

first, if we can find a great home

372

:

for him in Michigan, if we can

find, you know, phenomenal adopter

373

:

out of state or getting it removed.

374

:

But he said what's gonna probably

happen soon is, is get the designation

375

:

removed and once it got removed, if

he didn't have an adopter lineup,

376

:

Remi was supposed to come back to us.

377

:

DrG: Yeah, that's what I was gonna ask.

378

:

Kind of like what were the, what

was the setup of the arrangement

379

:

or what was the arrangement?

380

:

So, you know, he's going to find him

a home, he's gonna bring him back once

381

:

the designation is gone so that you

can either keep him or adopt him out.

382

:

Litsa Kargakos: Yeah, it was exactly,

you know what I had just said that either

383

:

he was gonna find him a forever home.

384

:

And I, I questioned him.

385

:

I'm like, why?

386

:

I wanna vet these people if you

find him a home, because I've had

387

:

this dog in my home for four months.

388

:

We, you know, we fell

in love with this dog.

389

:

He was already integrated in the home.

390

:

Like, it wasn't the only reason that

Remi went, and I, I hate to say this

391

:

because this sounds, I don't know,

I guess it could be interpreted in

392

:

a multitude of ways, but if Remi was

an asshole, we would've kept him.

393

:

If he was a jerk, we would've kept him.

394

:

Like Dingo, our one

dog, he's batshit crazy.

395

:

He was gonna be put down at Animal

Charity like eight, nine years ago.

396

:

Multiple rescues went into pull

this dog, they weren't comfortable

397

:

giving them to any of the rescues.

398

:

Um, we went in and they thought

that I was crazy when I went in, but

399

:

this dog, they had him from a puppy.

400

:

They had him, um, Dingo, from four

months old, and he would lunge at

401

:

people and, you know, four months old.

402

:

Okay, no big deal.

403

:

But then you have, you know, 60

pound shepherd mix lunging at people.

404

:

It's not cute anymore.

405

:

So they try to go ahead and

euthanize him on the down low.

406

:

And one of the employees there

actually spoke up and put up a post.

407

:

And when I went to meet this dog, I can

see it was all fear-based, and Jenny

408

:

actually had recommended that he be

euthanized, but she recommended if he had

409

:

to stay in that environment because it

was not good for his mental wellbeing.

410

:

It was, he was not thriving there.

411

:

He was regressing, he

was doing terrible there.

412

:

So when we went to meet him, my first

reaction was, this dog is scared.

413

:

I wanna see what his

reaction is, if he bites.

414

:

So I went in, my husband stood to

the side and two people from Animal

415

:

Charity, um, we're like up, the

one girl was able to handle 'em.

416

:

The one lady wasn't, but she was

the one that set up the meeting.

417

:

And I pulled up my arm from my

hoodie and I put just my sleeve

418

:

down to see what it would do.

419

:

And he bit my sleeve and he looked at

me because he didn't get the reaction

420

:

that he was anticipating that he'd

gotten for, what he was four months

421

:

when they got him, I think, and

he was like a year at this point.

422

:

So eight months he'd bite.

423

:

People would, you know, run away

or he'd lunge and they'd run away.

424

:

He didn't actually bite

anybody at that point.

425

:

So when I, he made the eye contact

with me, he ran back to the girl that

426

:

he was okay with and sat next to her

and just looked at her like, oh shit.

427

:

So Dingo was the dog that we knew he

was never gonna be able to be adopted.

428

:

He was, when we adopted him,

we adopted him to personally

429

:

keep him because he is a jerk.

430

:

And to this day, like

he's, he is phenomenal.

431

:

He is such a good boy.

432

:

I could do anything to Dingo.

433

:

I mean, I'll give him a Cytopoint shots.

434

:

I clean his ears, I do his nails.

435

:

Anything that I need to

do to this dog, he's fine.

436

:

He is good with the cats, he is

good with everybody, but strangers,

437

:

he just doesn't like strangers.

438

:

So we always make sure we

never set him up for failure.

439

:

When people come over, he either

comes upstairs and gets locked

440

:

up or he goes in his crate.

441

:

I'm not doing that to another human and

I'm not putting him in his situation.

442

:

But Remi was never that dog.

443

:

Remi was people friendly.

444

:

Like we had the dog sitter came in

within the first week of us having

445

:

Remi because we didn't plan on

getting Remi and they wouldn't even

446

:

tell us when we were getting him.

447

:

They were like, you have 24 hours to come

pick up this dog, or you have till the

448

:

end of day like something crazy to come

get this dog or we're euthanizing him.

449

:

So it was very unexpected and we had

plans to go away for Ohio Bike week.

450

:

So that was another reason of the outdoor

pen, 'cause I didn't want the dog sitter

451

:

to be like in a small area with a dog

that we weren't that familiar with.

452

:

Then she works at the pet resort that

I had said my friend owns, so she's,

453

:

you know, very familiar with different

behaviors of dogs and, but he was

454

:

fine with her even from the beginning.

455

:

So Remi was never a dog once

you met him, that you would've

456

:

felt was ever be unadoptable.

457

:

That's one of the reasons that we

agreed to send him to re to Steffen

458

:

because he deserved a home of his own.

459

:

DrG: And did he say about how long

the whole process was gonna take?

460

:

Litsa Kargakos: He didn't he, he did not.

461

:

He'd never put a timeline from

just like key words and the

462

:

way the conversation went.

463

:

I didn't expect it to be too

long, but he, he never gave like

464

:

a definitive time and he always

made it sound like he was so busy.

465

:

Like when he would reply to messages,

oh, I'm so busy, I'll get back to you.

466

:

You know, I'm have so many humane cases

and believing what I saw on social media.

467

:

I believed this.

468

:

I believed, okay, this

guy is super overwhelmed.

469

:

He's out there saving dogs.

470

:

He's out there taking dogs

outta bad situations, you know,

471

:

pulling dogs from kill shelters.

472

:

Like Remi is fine.

473

:

He is, I thought he was living

in his house and you know, no big

474

:

rush when he gets to it, you know?

475

:

And then we start reaching out

and the conversations got fewer

476

:

and longer gaps in between.

477

:

And then he just stopped replying.

478

:

DrG: So when, let's talk about when

he, like, did he come to get him

479

:

or did you take him to his house?

480

:

Litsa Kargakos: We met halfway.

481

:

My husband, I was at work and my husband

met him halfway, I think in Canton.

482

:

I think in Canton it was.

483

:

DrG: And about when, when did that happen?

484

:

Litsa Kargakos: That was September 9th.

485

:

DrG: And this is 2016, right?

486

:

Litsa Kargakos: Yes.

487

:

Of 16.

488

:

DrG: So he has, he has Remi.

489

:

You said the communications

little by little got got worse.

490

:

So how, how was it at first?

491

:

Was he sending you pictures?

492

:

Was he sending you

videos or what was that?

493

:

What was that like?

494

:

Litsa Kargakos: Both.

495

:

He sent videos of him

skateboarding with Remi.

496

:

He sent videos of Remi in

the yard with his other dogs.

497

:

Remi looked happy in all of the

pictures that he sent in the beginning.

498

:

I thought, you know what?

499

:

I made the right decision

because we cried.

500

:

Even my husband cried

so hard letting Remi go.

501

:

And again, he was such, he was a good

dog and, like, I can't tell you like the

502

:

nightmares that I had going back to the

one video the day that Remi left, because

503

:

he has his front paws on my husband.

504

:

He's looking at him in his eyes and

then my husband called me and he's

505

:

like, I don't know if I could do this.

506

:

He's like, I don't think I could take him.

507

:

He's like, I don't think

I could let him go.

508

:

And we're both bawling.

509

:

And I'm like, I love you so much.

510

:

And then Kelly, who was the one that

watched him that um, also worked at

511

:

the pet resort, she's like, you know,

he's this amazing, you know, trainer.

512

:

He is this amazing guy.

513

:

He's gonna find Remi a home of his own.

514

:

Because in my mind I'm like, okay,

worst thing that's gonna happen to

515

:

Remi here is he's gonna have to be

created all day when we go to work.

516

:

But Remi was a good dog.

517

:

Like he didn't destroy anything.

518

:

He didn't get into anything

and he didn't deserve that.

519

:

And I felt bad for that.

520

:

And little did I know it was gonna happen.

521

:

DrG: So when would you say that the

communication started getting really bad?

522

:

Litsa Kargakos: It was December, because

I was actually off for two weeks for

523

:

Christmas and New Year's, and I was

adamant that I wanted to go see Remi

524

:

and I wasn't getting any response.

525

:

I was like, "Hey, I'm off two weeks

when I come, can I come down?"

526

:

And we were supposed to go down earlier.

527

:

We're supposed to go down.

528

:

Well first my husband was supposed

to go down a week after we got Remi.

529

:

And up until the night before,

Steffen was like, yeah, we're on.

530

:

You know, this and that.

531

:

My husband was gonna go

spend the weekend there.

532

:

And then he didn't reply.

533

:

We heard nothing from him.

534

:

Well then that's when he was doing that

whole thing with Gordon Shell in Michigan.

535

:

And then he was like,

oh, something came up.

536

:

And again, you know, super busy.

537

:

So we didn't know if it had

something to do with that.

538

:

So then I said, okay,

when can we come see 'em?

539

:

And he said, well, you could come,

I forgot what weekend it was, but

540

:

it was within the first month.

541

:

And I said, well, we're bringing two dogs

from California, which were another two.

542

:

Um, we brought Lonnie and Daisy.

543

:

From California and I said, well,

that weekend's not gonna work

544

:

because these dogs are coming

on transport from California.

545

:

I said, how about the following weekend?

546

:

He is like, oh, I'm gonna be outta town,

but I can have him out in the barn.

547

:

And I said, I don't wanna

see him out in the barn.

548

:

I said, I wanna see him in your house.

549

:

I wanna see how he's interacting

with your dogs, how he's

550

:

interacting with you, your son.

551

:

Like I wanna make sure that he's okay.

552

:

He's like, okay, we'll

set something up soon.

553

:

And then that was pretty much it.

554

:

And then at Christmas I reached

out multiple times to try to go

555

:

see Remi and I got no response.

556

:

And then when I finally had had enough

'cause I contacted the dog warden, I

557

:

contacted the commissioners, I contacted

the sheriff and asked him to do a welfare

558

:

check on this dog, like everybody humanly

possible that I thought that can help

559

:

and make sure that this dog was okay.

560

:

And I called the dog warden's office.

561

:

We found out that he hadn't gotten

any dog licenses, and that was a

562

:

huge other concern for me because

if Remi is not registered with his

563

:

dangerous dog designation, can that

be something that they could come

564

:

take him and euthanize him for?

565

:

Because you have to make sure that you're,

you know, that's a big thing in the state.

566

:

They have to know if you move with a

dangerous dog where you're moving, where

567

:

this dog is staying, like constant, kind

of like a, I guess, a human on parole.

568

:

Like you kind of always have to check

in with the county and let them know.

569

:

And when Steffen took Remi, I had to write

a letter to the county and let them know,

570

:

Hey, this dog is now in Union County.

571

:

Um, so it was just, it, it

was downhill from that point.

572

:

And I made all these calls

and nobody wanted to help.

573

:

So I was like, all right,

what am I gonna do now?

574

:

I need to make sure this dog's okay.

575

:

So I had, I.

576

:

And I, I was messaging him

and telling him that, Hey, I'm

577

:

reaching out to the commissioners.

578

:

Hey, like, I didn't do this

stuff behind anybody's back.

579

:

And then at one point I said

to him, um, I can't, I think

580

:

it was with the commissioners.

581

:

I think that was the conversation that

I had texted him and said, Hey, I'm

582

:

reaching out to the commissioners.

583

:

And he called me and he

called me while I was at work.

584

:

And I'll never forget this conversation

because he didn't call very frequently.

585

:

But right after I sent him

a message, it triggered him.

586

:

And I'd have to go through my messages.

587

:

'cause it's, it's been so long now, like

sometimes the order gets a little bit, I

588

:

have to revisit it, but I wanna say I'm

99% sure it was after the message with

589

:

the commissioners that he had called.

590

:

And he said that he was going through

all kind of stuff and he's not posting

591

:

this on social media, but he's gone

through this terrible depression because

592

:

the girl who he had started his rescue

with, um, Shelby had gotten killed.

593

:

And it was her, I think he

said her one year anniversary.

594

:

And I have messages like with

a lot of the context from the

595

:

conversation and in so many words,

I said, I'm not trying to sound un

596

:

unempathetic, but I really don't care.

597

:

I wanna know how the dog is, how is Remi?

598

:

And he told me he was doing great.

599

:

He told me he was living in a foster home

with somebody who was a volunteer at ACT.

600

:

And I said, okay, give her

my contact information.

601

:

I wanna see Remi, I wanna see

pictures, I wanna do a FaceTime.

602

:

I need to know this dog is okay.

603

:

And he said, well, she's

not talking to me right now.

604

:

I was like, she has a dog

that's still under act.

605

:

Like what do you mean

she's not talking to you?

606

:

How do you have one of your dogs out

there that you don't check in on?

607

:

So that was like a huge red flag

to me because when we had dogs and

608

:

fosters, I mean, multiple times

a week we checked on these dogs.

609

:

We provided them with their food,

with their toys, their treats.

610

:

Like we did everything, even when

dogs got adopted, like I always

611

:

checked in with the adopters.

612

:

I'm still in contact with the dogs that

are still alive that we adopted out, um,

613

:

you know, with their adoptive families.

614

:

So that was like, what

do, what do you mean?

615

:

Like that just that

didn't set right with me?

616

:

And he said, yeah, she's mad at me

because they put in all this work

617

:

and we put up all this fencing

and now I have to dissolve ACT.

618

:

And they feel like all their

work didn't mean anything.

619

:

I said, I don't care.

620

:

I said, that is ACT's dog.

621

:

You need to get me a

meeting with that dog.

622

:

I wanna make sure he is okay.

623

:

And he's like, okay.

624

:

He's like, I'll email her.

625

:

And then he said she doesn't

have a computer, she doesn't

626

:

do a lot on a computer.

627

:

So like, what do we need to do?

628

:

Like send a pigeon in there, like what?

629

:

Whatever it is, I need to

know where this dog is.

630

:

Give me her address, I'll contact

or whatever we have to do.

631

:

DrG: And then, and this was

through January or into February?

632

:

Or is it about when?

633

:

Litsa Kargakos: This would've been in

634

:

fe It was in February.

635

:

'cause in March I had finally had enough.

636

:

So in March was like, I have to

find out what happened to this dog.

637

:

And I played out so many

different scenarios.

638

:

Is he using him for dog fighting?

639

:

Is he, was he hit by a car?

640

:

Is he, did he run away?

641

:

Like anything that you could imagine?

642

:

I've played out that scenario in my mind.

643

:

So then that's when I went to

social media and we started with

644

:

the reward and we started the

reward with a thousand dollars.

645

:

And it ended up going up to 5,000

because we had a lot of people from

646

:

Trumbull County who were volunteers

then that had pledged towards, if

647

:

we found out what happened to Remi,

that they'd help me pay this reward.

648

:

And when I put that up,

it said, where's Remi?

649

:

Ask Steffen Baldwin.

650

:

And I put his phone number.

651

:

I knew that the only way to get a

reaction from Steffen at this point

652

:

was social media, because he was still

active on social media all of his time.

653

:

He couldn't reply to text message,

he couldn't answer a phone call.

654

:

He couldn't set an hour of his day aside

so I go see this dog that we were, you

655

:

know, heavily emotionally invested in.

656

:

And he, that's, he turned his phone off.

657

:

He went completely dark,

he went completely dark.

658

:

He turned on off his social media pages,

his phone was completely off for two days.

659

:

I get a phone call from

the attorney on Sunday.

660

:

And when I saw that she was calling

me on a Sunday, I just started

661

:

bawling 'cause I knew it was bad.

662

:

And she said, Steffen

wants to have a mediation.

663

:

And the first thing was that he wanted me

to sign that I would not talk about it.

664

:

And I said, that's not even up for

discussion, that's not gonna happen.

665

:

I said, we could just end

this conversation now.

666

:

And so she reached back out to him and

he agreed um, to not add those terms.

667

:

So we met in a neutral location.

668

:

He drove up here and it was me

and my husband and the attorney.

669

:

'cause she represented

both rescues and Steffen.

670

:

And that's when he gave me his plethora

of lies of what happened with Remi.

671

:

DrG: And so you reached out to her?

672

:

She was, was she your attorney or what?

673

:

Did you reach out to her

because she was his attorney?

674

:

Litsa Kargakos: Well, she was the

attorney that helped me get Remi out.

675

:

So she had, was

representing No Fear Rescue.

676

:

She had done, she had done

our adoption contract.

677

:

She had done some different things.

678

:

Um, she had done, you know, a will for

us, different, you know, different things.

679

:

And then she represented

ACT, I don't know if she ever

680

:

represented Steffen personally,

but I know she represented ACT.

681

:

So she was just there as,

I guess as a mediator.

682

:

And we both signed papers that state,

well actually she forgot the paper,

683

:

so we signed email copies that we

were both aware that she wasn't,

684

:

you know, that she had represented

the other one at some point.

685

:

DrG: Okay.

686

:

Like a conflict of interest type?

687

:

Yeah.

688

:

Paperwork.

689

:

So you were expecting kind of the

worst going into this meeting.

690

:

You go in and what was his, because you

know, he's just always so smug and he

691

:

thinks that he can get away with anything.

692

:

So what was.

693

:

What did he look like and how did

he receive you when you came in?

694

:

Litsa Kargakos: His normal self um,

a little bit more mellow than normal.

695

:

He wasn't smiling.

696

:

He wasn't his chipper, you

know, his chipper self.

697

:

Um, and I think that, going back to

what you just said, or to piggyback

698

:

off of what you said, you know, his

normal smug self, I think that's

699

:

why he wanted to do the mediation

because he was such a con artist.

700

:

He was, he was charming.

701

:

He told people what they wanted to hear.

702

:

He always made it sound like

whatever your passion was,

703

:

that that was his passion too.

704

:

And I think that he thought meeting in

person would give him the opportunity

705

:

to calm me down because he saw at this

point, I wasn't anything that he had dealt

706

:

with in this decade in animal rescue that

they just took Steffen at face value.

707

:

DrG: What did he have to say to you?

708

:

Or how did the whole thing start?

709

:

Litsa Kargakos: Well, when it first

started, I laid an envelope down

710

:

on the paper and I had all of these

things that I presume Steffen was

711

:

gonna say, and the envelope was

sealed, and I just placed on the table.

712

:

I didn't say anything, just

had it placed on the table.

713

:

And well, I had it in my purse

at first, and as the conversation

714

:

went on, I placed it on the table.

715

:

And he told me that Remi was

euthanized because he was involved

716

:

in a dog fight, that he killed Zach,

and that Remi had horrific wounds

717

:

and that he had to euthanize him.

718

:

And he pulls out this piece of paper, and

it wasn't a paper that I ever saw before.

719

:

I mean, we've, you know, we've had animals

put down because they've had cancer,

720

:

we've had to have animals euthanized.

721

:

Our last dog, well Lonnie, passed

away, um, at Akron Emergency, but

722

:

before that Zeno, we had a vet come to

the house, so she was 17 and a half.

723

:

We wanted her in her own home.

724

:

And none of the paperwork ever looked

like anything like this that I had seen.

725

:

It was just a list of medications.

726

:

And that kind of struck me funny.

727

:

He would only show me the

bottom part of this paper.

728

:

It had Remi's name and it

had, like I said, medications.

729

:

I didn't know what any of that meant.

730

:

And he said they were

euthanasia medications.

731

:

And again, he said, you know

what a good boy Remi was.

732

:

And that somehow he got out of his run and

that he attacked Zach and they got in this

733

:

terrible fight and there was no choice but

to euthanize Remi because of the wounds.

734

:

DrG: So he tells you this, what,

where does it go from there?

735

:

Litsa Kargakos: So I immediately

didn't believe it because again,

736

:

I spent four months with Remi.

737

:

He never showed any dog

reactivity in my house.

738

:

He never showed any at the pound.

739

:

In my opinion, the pound brings out and

shelters bring out the worst in a dog.

740

:

And if he didn't show any there, I

didn't believe this dog was dog reactive.

741

:

So I said to Steffen, I

said, well, where's Zach?

742

:

He said, he's cremated on my

shelf, on my bookcase at home.

743

:

And I said, well, where's

the cremation record?

744

:

And he looked at the attorney, he

said, she didn't tell me to bring that.

745

:

And I said to him, she didn't

know I was gonna ask for that.

746

:

And not having a long relationship other

than just through rescue things with this

747

:

attorney, she didn't know me very well.

748

:

I didn't know her, so she had no

way of predicting what kind of

749

:

individual I was, what I was gonna

ask for, what I was gonna say.

750

:

She had a much deeper relationship

with Steffen at that point.

751

:

And I looked at him and

I said, okay, no problem.

752

:

I said, it's 3:30.

753

:

I said, crematory should be open.

754

:

I said, call the crematory.

755

:

I said, within 24 hours, there should

be a cremation of Zach from the

756

:

time that you claim this happened to

Remi, that you had him euthanized.

757

:

And this was the first time

I ever saw the true Steffen.

758

:

He literally, his face turned beet

red veins were coming out of his neck.

759

:

And if he could have lunged over the

table, I have no doubt that he would've.

760

:

And my husband's a bigger guy

and he's sitting next to me.

761

:

So you can see it took like every piece

of restraint that Steffen had not to blow

762

:

up, and he still tried to sell this to me.

763

:

Then that's when I kind of

started, you know, flipping out.

764

:

I just start, you know,

throwing things at him.

765

:

I don't believe a damn

thing you're saying.

766

:

You're a con artist, you're a liar.

767

:

You know, Remi did nothing wrong.

768

:

And I just went through the whole

thing like Remi was fine here.

769

:

He was fine with cats,

he was fine with dogs.

770

:

You know, you're a liar.

771

:

On and on and on.

772

:

And then he stepped like

pushing it and pushing it.

773

:

I said, there's nothing that

you can say that can make me

774

:

believe a word that you say.

775

:

And I actually told him,

I said, you know what?

776

:

I said, I'm done with you.

777

:

And I said, you can just go.

778

:

And he looked at the attorney and we

stayed back with the attorney because we

779

:

actually had our will changed because we

had Steffen as the executor of our will

780

:

up to that point.

781

:

That's how much I trusted this man.

782

:

I trusted him with my personal animals.

783

:

And like that's another whole

thing of what really settles so

784

:

raw was settling so wrong with me.

785

:

Like, what if we would've gotten killed?

786

:

What if something would've happened

with my husband and I together?

787

:

All my animals would probably be dead too.

788

:

DrG: That's just horrible.

789

:

And yeah, I mean, he met his match

with you because he's just used to

790

:

talking, especially he thinks he

can talk to any woman and they're

791

:

gonna just like woo over him.

792

:

So he, he has the, you know, this

thing that he thinks of himself

793

:

and to tell you his bullshit story

and then you don't believe it.

794

:

To him, that had to be a huge crush to

his ego, you know, that, that you're

795

:

just telling him "That's not it.

796

:

Tell me what really happened."

797

:

Litsa Kargakos: And I think that's

what caused him to get so angry

798

:

because no matter what he put

out, I just wasn't believing it.

799

:

And I was just coming back

at him with something else to

800

:

question what he was saying.

801

:

And I told him that day, I

said, you killed the wrong dog.

802

:

And so to see this all play out and

that I got to keep my word with that,

803

:

that gives a little bit of comfort.

804

:

That Remi didn't die in vain, that

we were able to get justice for him.

805

:

But he was just such a conniving

human being, like, I've never met

806

:

such a pathological, compulsive liar

that it seemed like lies came out

807

:

of his mouth easier than the truth.

808

:

Had he just said, you know, Litsa, I

fucked up if Remi would have gotten

809

:

in a fight, not for him, euthanizing

him for anything, but that's something

810

:

I might've been able to digest.

811

:

But him just trying to cover every

single thing up, you know, and the

812

:

more they try to cover it up, the

more I saw these red flags and the

813

:

more I disbelieved, like, too much of

this story you're trying to paint too

814

:

perfect of a picture around this.

815

:

Um, so yeah, that's, that was the day

that I saw the real Steffen and my

816

:

husband walked out with him, and my

husband said, you do not understand how

817

:

bad you have destroyed my wife over this.

818

:

Because he was there through the

nightmares and I had nightmares for

819

:

months not knowing what happened to Remi.

820

:

And Steffen looked at my husband

and he put his hands up and

821

:

he's like, please don't hit me.

822

:

That was his reaction.

823

:

My husband was like, dude,

you're not worth me hitting you.

824

:

He's like, you're not

worth me going to jail for.

825

:

But it makes you think, what

other sides are there of Steffen,

826

:

that that was his first reaction.

827

:

And my husband just walked,

you know, right back inside.

828

:

He just wanted to tell him that.

829

:

And he didn't wanna say it in front

of me, but the fact that he just

830

:

went straight to violence, that

started putting up more flags.

831

:

Then, you know, what else does this

guy do and who does he do it to?

832

:

And then the more we started

digging and the more we started

833

:

researching, and then I knew, okay,

834

:

he did this to Remi, what am I

gonna do to get justice for Remi?

835

:

I've got to do something.

836

:

So my goal was to destroy

Steffen in the animal world.

837

:

That was my ultimate, ultimate goal.

838

:

I did not want him to ever have the

opportunity to harm another animal.

839

:

So kept gathering information, put up

posts on, you know, justice for Remi, if

840

:

you've had a poor experience with Steffen.

841

:

If anything with Steffen.

842

:

So I was, started getting messages,

I got messages from a couple

843

:

ex-girlfriends, um, started communicating

with them, started communicating

844

:

with others whose dogs went missing.

845

:

So I was just compiling all of this

information and we found out about

846

:

him getting a license for Remi four

months after he killed him to try to

847

:

give me, get me to believe the story,

because he had told, he went to the

848

:

dog warden's office after I called

the dog warden to get this license.

849

:

And she leaves me a message and she's

like, oh, Remi, she got her license.

850

:

And I'm thinking to myself, well

that's kind of odd that the dog

851

:

warden doesn't even know that a

dangerous dog in her county is a male.

852

:

So start putting everything together.

853

:

Everything together.

854

:

And then a friend of mine who is

heavily involved in animal rescue

855

:

and um, different humane agency, she

says, Hey, I have this buddy who's a

856

:

cop that maybe he can give you some

pointers with what information you

857

:

need to gather, what evidence you need.

858

:

And that's how I met Officer

Conroy and he's like, well,

859

:

where are you in Trumbull County?

860

:

I was like, I'm not in Trumbull County.

861

:

I'm in Mahoning and I'm in Campbell.

862

:

And he said he was an officer in Campbell.

863

:

So I felt like everything aligned,

whether you believe, you know, in God,

864

:

Karma, Universe, I felt that that's

when everything started aligning so that

865

:

we can go ahead and put a stop to him.

866

:

DrG: Yeah, I think that everything

that could have gone right for you

867

:

and everything that could have gone

wrong for Steffen happened, right?

868

:

Like he, he has the worst karma and he

deserves all the bad things that he gets.

869

:

But he just has the worst karma

of anybody that I have ever met.

870

:

So

871

:

Litsa Kargakos: I you a thousand percent.

872

:

DrG: So you're still posting on

Facebook and you're asking people

873

:

for any information on anything.

874

:

And at that point, had he

given you information of

875

:

where he had been euthanized?

876

:

Litsa Kargakos: He did not.

877

:

He did not.

878

:

Again, the paper that he had, he had

it covered, and it was just the bottom.

879

:

And so I just kept gathering everything

and I reached out to anybody that I knew

880

:

was affiliated with Steffen and it was

like, Hey, you don't wanna believe me?

881

:

You don't have to believe me,

but here's proof that he got a

882

:

license after the dog was dead.

883

:

You know, here's our messages of

him saying the dog's doing good.

884

:

I mean, I emailed Bark Box,

I emailed Huffington Post.

885

:

Anybody that was affiliated with

him that I saw his name with, I was

886

:

emailing them, I was messaging them,

whatever I could, you know, possibly

887

:

do so that no other animal would end

up with the same faith that Remi did.

888

:

DrG: So for people that don't

know this, I euthanized Remi.

889

:

And I have to live with the fact that

I'm the person that euthanized Remi.

890

:

And my recollection was of one of the

doc doctors that I worked with sends me

891

:

this message saying " There's somebody

on Facebook asking about this dog, and

892

:

I think that it's a dog that you may

have seen" because they knew that I

893

:

worked with Steffen and at that point we

were not doing a lot of stuff with him.

894

:

But, , I see the post and

immediately I know which dog it is.

895

:

And

896

:

you know, it, it hurts so bad

to know this dog had somebody.

897

:

. And that's when I decided to

email you on Facebook, because I

898

:

certainly at that point did not

have any kind of loyalty to him.

899

:

And that was the first time

that I realized that there was

900

:

a problem as far as the animals.

901

:

And further into the, into the episodes,

we're gonna talk about my issues

902

:

with him, which were more financial

903

:

and fraud.

904

:

But this is the very first time that

I thought, what's happening here?

905

:

Because this is not the

story that that he told me.

906

:

And really, I remember

reaching out to you,

907

:

Litsa Kargakos: and I really

appreciate that you did, because

908

:

it kind of, it gave a little bit of

closure with how he was euthanized.

909

:

DrG: And you know.

910

:

Just so that people know as far as the,

how far the lies go is he told you about

911

:

how he got into this horrible fight.

912

:

He got out of the, out of the kennel.

913

:

He killed this other dog, and he

had these severe injuries and he had

914

:

to be euthanized because of these

injuries and because, uh, of the fight.

915

:

And that day, I just remember it so

clearly, like I remember everything about

916

:

that day and it's a little bit of personal

stuff and then some things that were

917

:

happening at the, at the office that day.

918

:

But I remember him coming in the

front door and saying, I have a dog

919

:

that is a dangerous dog that just

killed another dog, and I can't

920

:

bring him up the front because I'm

afraid that he may hurt another dog.

921

:

So I need to come in the back door.

922

:

And I said, okay, you know,

we'll meet you in the back.

923

:

So he comes in the back

and when he brings the dog,

924

:

one of my assistants that was helping

me with surgery that day saw him and

925

:

she asked what was happening and I

said, Steffen says that this is a

926

:

dangerous dog, and he killed another

dog, so he has to euthanize him.

927

:

And my assistant, Ashlie,

actually started crying.

928

:

She had to step out from surgery because

she had become invested in Remi's story.

929

:

So, you know, it's somebody that had

never met the dog that is really upset

930

:

about the fact because she didn't

think that that was gonna be his end.

931

:

She thought that this dog was

gonna have a happy life after

932

:

everything that happened, you know?

933

:

Litsa Kargakos: And even with that

story that he told you, he had to be

934

:

euthanized, that was a contract that I

had as the owner with Trumbull County.

935

:

That didn't carry over when we

transferred Remi to Steffen.

936

:

Even if Remi would've killed a dog, which

I don't believe for a heartbeat he did.

937

:

He, he, he was not dog aggressive.

938

:

He didn't have to euthanize him.

939

:

He still could have gave him back.

940

:

And I had given Steffen

an out when he took Remi.

941

:

I was very, very specific.

942

:

I said, if he's regressing, if he's

not happy, if he doesn't want to

943

:

eat, if he's just depressed, call us.

944

:

We will be back there that day.

945

:

He could have simply picked up

the phone and said, you know

946

:

what, Remi seems sad, Litsa.

947

:

He just doesn't seem happy here anymore.

948

:

I really tried, but I think he

would be happy to come back and we

949

:

would've been back there that day.

950

:

And that's what makes it so hard too.

951

:

And I think this goes back to like

how Remi was the trigger for you

952

:

when you found out that how shitty

of a human being Steffen was.

953

:

If he did this to a dog, that somebody was

954

:

still willing to do anything for,

like, we sent Remi with like probably

955

:

four or $500 worth of stuff there.

956

:

We sent him with two bags of Origin dog

food, dog treats, Kongs, dog beds, crate

957

:

pads, everything that you can imagine.

958

:

And I was checking in on him consistently.

959

:

What's happening to animals?

960

:

What is he doing to these animals that

he's pulling from shelters and that he's

961

:

pulling from other rescues that, you

know, might be overwhelmed and don't

962

:

have time to check up on their animal?

963

:

So how many more dogs are there?

964

:

So, not to change the path, but it just

kind of tied into what you were saying.

965

:

DrG: No, absolutely.

966

:

And you know, he just, he brings this

dog that is such a dangerous dog,

967

:

but he brings it in and Remi's just

kind of like scoping the place out.

968

:

Like doesn't look scared,

doesn't look aggressive.

969

:

Uh, but that said, there are dogs that

react differently in different situations.

970

:

And as the humane officer of Union County.

971

:

I have no reason to doubt his words

saying "he has a dangerous dog

972

:

registration, he killed another

dog, and he has to be euthanized."

973

:

So, you know, I believed him.

974

:

I wrote everything down and, um, you

know, sedated Remi as we normally

975

:

did, and then euthanized him.

976

:

So, you know, he, he does that.

977

:

And then one of the things that

was happening that day, one of

978

:

the, the reasons I remember that

day, is that we had just received

979

:

a large piece of equipment.

980

:

We had received a CT scan and we didn't

have all the funds to pay for it.

981

:

So, you know, this is gonna come a little

bit later as far as how he's saying that

982

:

he was so upset and so sad and, you

know, with his girlfriend and all

983

:

this stuff, but he didn't skip a beat.

984

:

He euthanizes the dog and then starts

talking to me about, "Hey, um, will

985

:

I be out of your shit list if I, if I

help you get funds for this CT scanner?"

986

:

And starts talking about

other stuff, like, you know,

987

:

it's, he, he was not tore up.

988

:

He was not upset.

989

:

He was

990

:

Litsa Kargakos: not the fact

that he just took this life,

991

:

DrG: right?

992

:

And, and so I also

remember that he went home.

993

:

And he made a post on Instagram about, um,

I think it, it was like some picture of

994

:

like flowers and tampons and chocolates.

995

:

Litsa Kargakos: I remember

that very, very well.

996

:

DrG: Yeah.

997

:

And then saying about, you know,

like, kind of like the boyfriend kit

998

:

for when your girlfriend's having

her period or something like that.

999

:

Which, what a douche bag.

:

00:52:09,870 --> 00:52:17,460

Um, but like there was nothing that

day that he was so upset about for

:

00:52:17,880 --> 00:52:22,230

then the reasons that he gave you, why

he couldn't talk to you about it and

:

00:52:22,230 --> 00:52:25,050

why he couldn't say anything about it.

:

00:52:25,710 --> 00:52:26,280

So.

:

00:52:26,685 --> 00:52:31,005

Again, when I see the, the comments

on Facebook and the story that you're

:

00:52:31,005 --> 00:52:35,295

putting on Facebook and what he said,

I felt that it was my responsibility

:

00:52:35,295 --> 00:52:39,735

to reach out to you and let you know

what happened, where it happened,

:

00:52:39,975 --> 00:52:41,325

that I was the one who did it.

:

00:52:41,325 --> 00:52:45,975

So if you had any questions you could ask

and to let you know that he was not tore

:

00:52:45,975 --> 00:52:48,825

up the way that, that Steffen had said.

:

00:52:49,760 --> 00:52:53,620

Litsa Kargakos: And I think that

that played a big key in the fact

:

00:52:53,620 --> 00:52:59,710

that when I did go to Officer Conroy,

being able to say, we know a hundred

:

00:52:59,710 --> 00:53:01,600

percent that this is not true.

:

00:53:02,470 --> 00:53:06,850

So I think it definitely, 'cause I'm

not gonna lie, not knowing you, not

:

00:53:06,850 --> 00:53:10,570

knowing that you were the vet that

did it, presuming that it was you,

:

00:53:10,570 --> 00:53:14,470

only because of the fact that you

saw, you know, a lot of affiliated

:

00:53:14,470 --> 00:53:16,660

posts that he would mention you in.

:

00:53:17,560 --> 00:53:18,580

I hated you.

:

00:53:19,510 --> 00:53:21,910

I'm like, okay, why did she kill this dog?

:

00:53:22,810 --> 00:53:27,985

And especially once I had asked, you

know, where Zach's cremation records were.

:

00:53:28,765 --> 00:53:33,625

So, but then you telling me, you

know, you didn't question it.

:

00:53:33,625 --> 00:53:35,095

'cause he is the humane agent.

:

00:53:36,025 --> 00:53:38,215

I realized we were in the

same boat at that point.

:

00:53:39,445 --> 00:53:39,835

DrG: Yeah.

:

00:53:39,835 --> 00:53:46,495

It's, um, the, there was a, a reporter

from the Vindicator that I spoke with

:

00:53:46,675 --> 00:53:51,065

last week and he said, you know, we

have a friendship now that started

:

00:53:51,065 --> 00:53:52,235

with something pretty horrible.

:

00:53:52,955 --> 00:53:53,315

Right.

:

00:53:54,005 --> 00:54:01,025

Um, and I don't know, I, when, when

I reached out to you, I expected

:

00:54:01,025 --> 00:54:04,835

you to be mad because you sounded

so angry in all of your posts.

:

00:54:04,895 --> 00:54:05,255

Right.

:

00:54:05,255 --> 00:54:11,735

And, and everything was very aggressive

and very, you know, like I'm seeking

:

00:54:11,735 --> 00:54:14,555

justice and I was part of that.

:

00:54:14,915 --> 00:54:17,885

So I felt, you know,

she's gonna be mad at me.

:

00:54:18,035 --> 00:54:20,575

But different to Steffen,

:

00:54:21,230 --> 00:54:24,710

I'm somebody that I wanna be upfront

and honest with what's happening.

:

00:54:25,040 --> 00:54:25,310

Right.

:

00:54:25,370 --> 00:54:30,410

And, and I'll take, and I'll take

what I, what I need to get, you know.

:

00:54:30,410 --> 00:54:33,710

If I make a mistake, I'll own

it and, and go from there.

:

00:54:34,280 --> 00:54:37,580

Uh, which is something

that he definitely did not.

:

00:54:38,120 --> 00:54:45,950

Um, but, but yeah, I mean, from, from

there I know that then Detective Conroy

:

00:54:45,950 --> 00:54:51,530

started looking into me, um, just thinking

that I was involved because, I mean,

:

00:54:51,530 --> 00:54:57,470

we worked so closely together that he

thought that, you know, we were partners.

:

00:54:57,570 --> 00:54:57,900

Litsa Kargakos: Yeah.

:

00:54:57,960 --> 00:55:01,770

He, once everything started coming out

as Steffen, I think anybody who was

:

00:55:01,770 --> 00:55:07,140

closely affiliated with Steffen kind of

had a spotlight on them and scrutiny.

:

00:55:07,500 --> 00:55:10,830

Whether they were or weren't doing things

wrong because it was like, okay, how

:

00:55:10,830 --> 00:55:12,750

can somebody work so closely with him?

:

00:55:12,930 --> 00:55:15,840

How can somebody be part of his

life, whether you know, a personal

:

00:55:15,840 --> 00:55:20,100

aspect or a business aspect

and not see these red flags?

:

00:55:20,820 --> 00:55:25,080

And then when you did reach out and, you

know, the more that we got to talk, the

:

00:55:25,080 --> 00:55:27,360

more the resentment with you diminished.

:

00:55:27,360 --> 00:55:33,630

Because I understand why you did

it based on what he told you.

:

00:55:34,050 --> 00:55:38,760

I know if we could fast forward or you

had a crystal ball and you knew the

:

00:55:38,760 --> 00:55:43,470

other side, or you had seen the posts of

Remi, I have no doubt that you would've

:

00:55:43,470 --> 00:55:45,150

reached out, you know, beforehand.

:

00:55:46,220 --> 00:55:47,210

DrG: Oh, absolutely.

:

00:55:47,210 --> 00:55:53,840

Because, you know, it's, I, I am a big

believer that euthanasia is something

:

00:55:53,840 --> 00:55:55,850

that we do compassionately for animals.

:

00:55:56,150 --> 00:56:02,345

Because animals, whether they're,

they have poor physical health

:

00:56:02,405 --> 00:56:07,085

or poor mental health, sometimes

they're, they're sadly so broken

:

00:56:07,145 --> 00:56:09,785

that euthanasia is the last resort.

:

00:56:10,535 --> 00:56:16,685

But when there's an animal that doesn't

need to be euthanized and somebody

:

00:56:16,685 --> 00:56:20,765

gives me a lie to euthanize that animal,

I'm being used almost as a weapon.

:

00:56:21,185 --> 00:56:21,575

Right.

:

00:56:22,325 --> 00:56:22,655

Litsa Kargakos: Thousand percent.

:

00:56:22,705 --> 00:56:28,155

DrG: And that's really upset me

about the whole thing, was the fact

:

00:56:28,155 --> 00:56:33,345

that he used me to get, get his way.

:

00:56:33,795 --> 00:56:38,715

You know, he had no, he had

no cares or empathy for you.

:

00:56:39,075 --> 00:56:42,105

He had no care or empathy

for me in this whole thing.

:

00:56:42,585 --> 00:56:47,385

He's just, this dog's in my way and

I'm going to get rid of it and then

:

00:56:47,385 --> 00:56:52,635

just pitch whatever lies I can say,

because that's just the way he, he was

:

00:56:52,635 --> 00:56:54,015

used to getting away with everything.

:

00:56:55,035 --> 00:56:58,575

Litsa Kargakos: When he had a goal or he

had his mindset, he'd run over anything

:

00:56:58,665 --> 00:57:00,645

or anybody in between getting him there.

:

00:57:01,785 --> 00:57:08,925

DrG: That gets started you with

Detective Conroy and at what point does

:

00:57:08,925 --> 00:57:12,495

he figure that there's more to the story?

:

00:57:13,775 --> 00:57:15,965

Litsa Kargakos: Well, once I had

put up the post and I asked for

:

00:57:15,965 --> 00:57:19,775

information, I went to him with, I

don't know, hundreds, maybe thousands

:

00:57:19,775 --> 00:57:24,845

of pieces of information and printouts,

and he started reading through it.

:

00:57:25,295 --> 00:57:30,395

And I think that he realized that the

case was much bigger than just me.

:

00:57:30,965 --> 00:57:35,195

And he was very, detective Conroy

did not share a lot of information

:

00:57:35,195 --> 00:57:38,045

throughout the process, and there were

times that I got frustrated with him.

:

00:57:38,585 --> 00:57:41,025

Because I'm like, why aren't we

just pressing charges for Remi?

:

00:57:41,045 --> 00:57:42,935

Like, why is he not

being held accountable?

:

00:57:42,935 --> 00:57:48,395

And we had a different attorney at that

point, um, that wasn't the one that

:

00:57:48,395 --> 00:57:49,755

was affiliated with me and Steffen.

:

00:57:49,755 --> 00:57:55,025

We had a personal attorney and he

wanted to go ahead and he said,

:

00:57:55,025 --> 00:57:56,465

"Hey, we definitely have a case here.

:

00:57:56,465 --> 00:58:00,725

Let's go after him civilly, let you

know Officer Conroy, go ahead and

:

00:58:00,965 --> 00:58:03,695

press, you know, the criminal charges,

whatever he could get with that."

:

00:58:04,415 --> 00:58:07,595

And I never wanted to go after

Steffen financially because

:

00:58:07,595 --> 00:58:08,885

it was never the money for me.

:

00:58:09,245 --> 00:58:14,085

It was, I never wanted anybody to

think that I was bashing Steffen

:

00:58:14,105 --> 00:58:15,515

because I wanted this money back.

:

00:58:15,515 --> 00:58:22,355

We had probably $4,000 invested

in Remi at this point, and it was

:

00:58:22,355 --> 00:58:24,185

never, it was never financial.

:

00:58:24,395 --> 00:58:27,815

I never wanted a price tag associated.

:

00:58:27,815 --> 00:58:31,115

When we had that mediation, I

guess going back, he offered to

:

00:58:31,115 --> 00:58:32,985

reimburse me everything for Remi.

:

00:58:33,530 --> 00:58:36,140

I said, you can't put a price on his life.

:

00:58:36,170 --> 00:58:39,890

Like I, if anything, I got even more

offended that he thought that that

:

00:58:39,890 --> 00:58:41,600

was gonna make his problem go away.

:

00:58:42,110 --> 00:58:45,620

And so I knew that we had a case

based on what the attorney said.

:

00:58:45,620 --> 00:58:47,240

The attorney had talked to Jim.

:

00:58:47,810 --> 00:58:50,240

Um, it's a very small community.

:

00:58:50,240 --> 00:58:54,530

The attorney was in Struthers,

but he actually used to be, um,

:

00:58:54,530 --> 00:58:56,210

work for the city of Campbell too.

:

00:58:56,240 --> 00:58:58,290

He used to actually be the

chief of police in Campbell.

:

00:58:58,310 --> 00:59:03,740

So he knew Officer Conroy, and he knew

that, you know, there was a case 'cause

:

00:59:03,740 --> 00:59:05,090

he was the chief of police before.

:

00:59:05,090 --> 00:59:06,710

So he knew we had a case.

:

00:59:07,520 --> 00:59:12,200

And like I said, I got frustrated

with Conroy though, man, 'cause he

:

00:59:12,230 --> 00:59:18,470

wouldn't like give any, he is very,

everything's monotone with him and

:

00:59:18,470 --> 00:59:20,330

it's very hard to get a read on him.

:

00:59:20,900 --> 00:59:22,730

So you didn't know if

things were going good.

:

00:59:22,730 --> 00:59:24,530

You didn't know if things are going bad.

:

00:59:24,560 --> 00:59:27,830

The responses that I'd usually get from

him are just be patient, it's coming.

:

00:59:28,040 --> 00:59:29,090

Just be patient.

:

00:59:29,090 --> 00:59:30,560

Something's gonna come with this.

:

00:59:32,480 --> 00:59:41,780

It was, I had no idea until grand jury,

like how serious everything was and

:

00:59:41,780 --> 00:59:43,250

they start going through the counts.

:

00:59:43,280 --> 00:59:47,090

And then you and I, you and I had

spoken briefly at the courthouse

:

00:59:47,090 --> 00:59:51,980

that day and that was like the real

moment that I started realizing

:

00:59:51,980 --> 00:59:53,720

how much shit he must have done.

:

00:59:54,950 --> 00:59:55,370

DrG: Yeah.

:

00:59:55,430 --> 01:00:01,040

It's, it would, I don't think that he

ever, in his wildest dreams imagined how

:

01:00:01,040 --> 01:00:06,650

much stuff he was going to find and you

know, how many charges were gonna end

:

01:00:06,650 --> 01:00:09,750

up being, being raised against Steffen.

:

01:00:10,220 --> 01:00:15,080

So, you know, that's what we're going

to be discussing in future episodes.

:

01:00:15,460 --> 01:00:19,030

We're gonna take the, this podcast

series and we are going to go

:

01:00:19,030 --> 01:00:23,290

through the whole investigation from

everything that Detective Conroy found.

:

01:00:23,710 --> 01:00:28,480

How little by little by little he built

a case over what did he take him for?

:

01:00:28,480 --> 01:00:35,020

About four years to actually put this

case together and how it's, in my

:

01:00:35,020 --> 01:00:38,620

opinion, one of the most important

animal cruelty cases as far as the

:

01:00:38,620 --> 01:00:41,080

legal system works here in Ohio.

:

01:00:44,902 --> 01:00:49,432

On our next episode, the Rabbit Hole,

we are going to start discussing with

:

01:00:49,432 --> 01:00:54,562

Officer Jim Conroy, how he started this

investigation and where it took him to.

:

01:00:54,892 --> 01:00:58,312

So make sure to listen and as

always, thank you for listening

:

01:00:58,312 --> 01:00:59,362

and thank you for caring.

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About the Podcast

The Animal Welfare Junction
Veterinary Forensics
The Animal Welfare Junction is a podcast developed to bring awareness to different topics in animal welfare. The host, Michelle Gonzalez (Dr. G) is a veterinarian who provides affordable veterinary care in the State of Ohio, and also a Forensic Veterinarian helping with the investigation and prosecution of cases of animal cruelty and neglect.
The topics presented are based on the experiences of Dr. G and our guests and include discussions about real cases, humane projects, and legal issues that affect animals and the community. Due to the nature of the discussion, listener discretion is advised as some topics may be too strong for some listeners.

About your host

Profile picture for Alba Gonzalez

Alba Gonzalez

Michelle González (DrG) was born and raised in Puerto Rico. Her passion growing up was to become a veterinarian. She obtained a B.S. in Zoology at Michigan State University and the Doctor of Veterinary Medicine degree at The Ohio State University, followed by a 1-yr Internship in Medicine, Surgery, Emergency and Critical Care at the University of Missouri-Columbia. In 2006 she founded the Rascal Unit, a mobile clinic offering accesible and affordable sterilization, and wellness services throughout the State of Ohio.
Dr. G is involved in many aspects of companion veterinary medicine including education, shelter assistance and help to animals that are victims of cruelty and neglect.
DrG completed a Master’s degree in Veterinary Forensics from the University of Florida and a Master’s in Forensic Psychology from Southern New Hampshire University. She is currently enrolled at the University of Florida Forensic Science program. She assists Humane organizations and animal control officers in the investigation, evaluation, and prosecution of cases of animal cruelty and neglect.