Episode 2

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Published on:

29th May 2025

Season 1: State vs Steffen Baldwin / Episode 2: The Rabbit Hole

Season 1: State vs Steffen Baldwin / Episode 2: The Rabbit Hole

After finding out that Steffen had secretly euthanized Remi, the Kargakos’ found themselves looking for someone to investigate Steffen and get to the truth of what happened to Remi.

In Episode Two, Officer Jim Conroy, from the Mahoning County Police Department, takes us through the beginning of the investigation, how he became involved and how looking into Remi's story took him into a complex case, filled with more crimes everywhere he looked.

Share and Like this episode to help us reach more people! This can happen anywhere, and together we can make a difference in the lives of animals our communities.

Transcript
DrG:

Hi, and welcome to the Animal Welfare Junction.

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This is your host, Dr.

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G.

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and our music is written and

produced by Mike Sullivan.

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So this is Season One: State

versus Steffen Baldwin,

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Episode Two: the Rabbit Hole.

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As I mentioned in the last episode,

these cases have elements of animal

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cruelty and domestic violence.

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So please take care of yourselves

and if this is too hard, hit

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pause and come back later.

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So on the last episode, we spoke

with Remi's owner Litsa, about

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the events that led her to start

looking into Steffen Baldwin.

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And today we have with us the

officer that helped reveal all of

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the things Baldwin was up to and

what became a much more complex

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case than was initially thought of.

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So I wanna introduce you to Jim Conroy.

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Thanks for being here and

welcome to the Junction.

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Det. Jim Conroy:

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Thank you for having me.

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DrG: Can you start by letting our

audience know a bit about yourself and

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what brought you to where you are today?

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Det. Jim Conroy:

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I have been a police officer for 32 years,

uh, in the last, uh, this is my 12th

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year at the Campbell Police Department,

which is northeast Ohio, Mahoning County.

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Uh, we're a small city

located next to Youngstown.

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We are on the east side of

Youngstown, butted up against it

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and, uh, you know, I'm probably

gonna finish out my career here, uh,

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eventually, someday when I retire.

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Um, but, uh, I do all kind of

different things for, for the city

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as far as, um, uh, investigations.

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So, and animals are one of them.

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So I, I, I get the animal

investigations in the city of Campbell.

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DrG: There's so much stuff about

this case and you cannot talk

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about one thing before, without

getting into another topic, into

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another topic, into another topic.

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'cause everything just kinda, there, there

were so many things in, in every one.

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I mean, every one thing, right?

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Like, it's just so complicated.

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Det. Jim Conroy:

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Yes.

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Not, nothing is straightforward,

nothing is simple.

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I, uh, stopped talking, at one point

I just decided I'm not going to talk

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to anyone about this case because

I always felt I sounded so stupid.

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'Cause I was all over the place and it,

I just couldn't explain it any one way.

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And even when I initially started talking

to the prosecutors in Union County and,

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and Melissa, I always felt like God,

they, they probably think I'm so stupid.

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Like I'm just all over the place.

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Like ADD.

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Like you said, it's just, it's

unbelievable to, to stay on topic.

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You can't 'cause it, it's one rabbit

hole after another, after another.

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And not, not, there is not a story that's

not like that, that you could just go off

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in 10 different areas, 10 different ways.

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And from those you can

go off in 10 more ways.

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Um, it's hard to stay on

points, hard to stay on topic.

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It's hard to sound, you know what you're

talking about because you could just

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start getting caught up in so many other

things, in so many other directions.

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DrG: So in our last episode, we

talked to Litsa about everything that

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happened and then how once she had all

this information, she found you and

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she got you to take over this case.

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So what do, what do you remember

about that first interaction with her?

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Det. Jim Conroy:

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A mutual friend I had talked

to, it was like the day before.

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Um, actually April 12th was when,

uh, Litsa and Angelo had met with

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Baldwin at an IHOP in Boardman, Ohio,

which is a suburb of Youngstown.

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And, uh, the day before I had been

talking with a, a mutual friend of ours,

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and I had never met Litsa and Angelo.

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I didn't know who they were.

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They lived three blocks from the police

department, but I never met them.

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Um, so the day before, a friend of mine

was telling me a little bit about the

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Remi story and about Baldwin, but I

don't even think she told me the name.

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And that, you know, tomorrow was the

big day and that they're gonna find

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out, she had fear that Remi was dead.

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So a couple days later, I reached

back out to her and I said, you know,

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hey, uh, what happened with that?

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And she was like, yeah, he, he's dead.

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and, uh, that, the humane agent, you

know, had had, had him euthanized

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and that everybody was really upset

and nobody really believed the story.

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And then later on that night, she

had texted me and said, you know,

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would you be interested in, in

trying to point them in the right

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direction, which, which way to go?

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And I said, yeah, sure.

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Have 'em call me.

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So, Litsa and Angelo had called me and

talked to me on the phone and at first,

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you know, Remi's whole situation had

started in the county north of us, which

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is Trumbull County, and we're in Mahoning.

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So, you know, I had heard about the

story from my friend leading up to it.

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And so I thought this was all

taking place in Trumbull County.

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I had no idea it was Mahoning County.

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So after some conversation about,

you know, do you, do you know what,

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do you know anybody in Warren or

Trumbull County that can help you?

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And they're like, no.

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And then I said, okay.

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And they're like, well, we

live in Mahoning County.

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And like, okay, do you have

a sheriff's department?

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And they're like, no.

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And they're like, oh,

well, where do you live?

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And they said, Campbell.

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And I said, well, you know,

you're, you're talking to the right

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person, so, um, I can help you.

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And then that's kind of

where it went from there.

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So, they had told me the whole story,

and then what I had asked them to

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do was gather as much information as

they could, and that, you know, it

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was very complicated already to begin

with, just because of the transfer

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of ownership from Remi to Baldwin.

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So I had to look into some things first,

uh, just to make sure that, you know,

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I wasn't gonna go down a path that,

you know, there was no use in it, uh,

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because of a transfer of ownership.

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'cause I know how the, the laws are

for animals, uh, in Ohio and, and it's

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really hard to hold anyone accountable

in Ohio when it comes to animals and

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animal cruelty or killing of animals.

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So I asked them to get as much

information as they could.

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And then, I looked into it with

our lieutenant at the time, he was

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our chief of police now, but at

the time he was our lieutenant.

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And then we determined that, we felt

that at that time it was a, you know,

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theft by deception from what we knew,

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um, you know, and some maybe

various other crimes that we

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thought of just dealing with Remi.

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So a couple months later I finally met

up with them and they handed me like,

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like 3000 copies of documentation.

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And then we did the initial police report.

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I believe that was like June 8th of 2017.

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And then from there, uh, I

started looking at and going

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through the the documentation.

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You know, it was kind of overwhelming,

because there was so much, and in that

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documentation there was, you know,

all these comments from people stating

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that, you know, Remi's not the only one.

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There's other dogs,

there's other dogs missing.

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We don't know what happened to our dog.

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And then within all of those documents,

I found two other dogs that were dead and

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were posted on Petfinder as being adopted.

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So I knew they were dead and that

they were posted as being adopted.

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So I'm like, okay, then we have

two dogs other than Remi, so there

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could be something more here.

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At that point I went back to

Litsa and Angelo and stated that,

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look, I think there's more here.

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However, if I go this route,

it's gonna take a lot longer.

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I said, you know, we could

just go straight Remi case.

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I said, but , from what I'm learning

about him, you know, he could

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just wind up pleading it down,

he may get a few charges on him.

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He'll say, it's just, he'll say

it's just one incident or one

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mistake and, you know, nothing

will probably really happen to him.

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And it'll probably just

be, you know, misdemeanors.

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In, in the county where I work, it's

a very violent county, and so that

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tendency is to focus on the charges that

are more serious than animal cruelty.

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It doesn't really get taken

seriously in Mahoning County.

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So I just felt that with just Remi

alone, that, you know, they may

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not get what they want in, in the

end result if it's just about Remi.

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So I explained that to them

and they agreed to, yeah,

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go ahead, go forward with it.

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And then, so the next step for me

was I reached out to, the Ohio

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Attorney General's office and then

I also reached out to BCI, to

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see if they would get on board.

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' cause that would be the only way that

I could then continue to investigate

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outside of Remi, because we're Mahoning

County and Baldwin is in Union County.

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DrG: And can you let our audience know

what BCI is and what their purpose is for?

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Det. Jim Conroy:

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Ohio Bureau of Criminal Investigation

is, they're our state, uh,

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investigative law enforcement agency.

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So they have jurisdiction

throughout the state.

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So if anyone works for BCI, uh,

they have divisions like Southwest,

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Southeast, Northwest, Northeast.

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Anybody from BCI could, you

know, really investigate anything

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within the state of Ohio.

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And then for a police officer to do

that as well, you have to have BCI

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on board with the investigation.

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And then the Ohio Attorney General's

office, they have a, a special

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division that's just for 501c3.

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And then that's who I also called

to as well, to, uh, speak with them

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to see if they would get on board.

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And they did.

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And then, uh, BCI, uh, also did, um,

and it was about the end of October

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when, so both, both of 'em were

on board with the investigation.

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And then we met down in Columbus

in middle of November, to present

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what I had to the Ohio Attorney

General's office and their attorneys.

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And then that's kind of how

it all started from there.

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DrG: So at that point you have

Remi, and then you have two other

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potential dogs, and now you can,

you can look into everywhere.

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So what was, what were

the steps after that?

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Like, how the investigation

start from there?

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Det. Jim Conroy:

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Well, the next step was that

we had to get more information.

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So all I had were those documents

that Litsa was providing and a lot

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of people that were saying different

things, but nobody was saying, I know

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for a fact, or I saw this or that.

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It was just like, I

heard this, I heard that.

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So I had been calling anybody that had

made any type of statement that had

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any type of knowledge about any animal.

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I called 'em and, and see if, you know,

they had any information to provide to me.

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So that's how I started, talking to

individuals and getting more information

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and gathering more information.

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Of course, your name kept coming

up as far as that, somebody

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that I needed to talk to.

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Union County, I knew nothing

about Union County other than

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it was kind of a rural county.

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What I had read about Baldwin,

you know, he seemed like a star.

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You know, at first I felt really bad, um,

'cause I, again, I knew nothing about him.

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And so when Litsa had given me those

documents and I had been reading

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all these things, and of course I

went to his Facebook page and, and

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I looked at all those different

things and I thought, wow, this guy's

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really doing some awesome things.

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And then I felt really bad, like,

are we gonna wreck this guy over?

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He made one mistake and

that's how I started.

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That was my original thought.

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He made a mistake.

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So.

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Obviously I was going to, to do the

investigation, but it bothered me that,

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that, oh man, someone's doing such good

and, you know, this could all come undone.

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So, uh, that was a, it was a personal

struggle, but it wasn't going to stop

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me from what I have to do, which is

investigate it, but it bothered me

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that someone this good or someone

this great with animals, you know,

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could end up getting in trouble.

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And so, I started talking to

these different people, getting

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more information here or there.

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And, eventually the, the next step

was to, we felt, you know, we didn't

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know who was involved, 'cause we

know that, you know, there's a board.

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We figured he probably had

people that helped him out.

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We knew he was partners with you.

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Uh, he seemed to be partners with the dog

warden, at least we thought at the time.

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And we knew he was a star, so we

didn't know how Union County would feel

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about us coming down there and saying,

Hey, this is what we got on your guy.

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You're, you know, the big star

that you guys have down here.

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So those were all unknown

questions at that time.

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Uh, so I believe that, uh, the next

interview other than Litsa, uh, which

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we had done, I believe at the end

of August and with, uh, BCI and Ohio

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Attorney General's office, uh, in

Campbell, that was of course recorded.

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The Attorney General's office had talked

to some various other people too, uh,

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that were had to do with the board.

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And then they came back and said, you

know, nobody really knows anything.

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We don't really have anything here.

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And, uh, so that was kind of surprising

'cause, you know, okay, nobody on the

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board knows anything and, you know,

they're, they're kind of thinking that,

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you know, this is kind of going nowhere.

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This is my impression of what the

Attorney General's office thought.

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The first two people,

well, let me back up.

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So the next person to interview after

Litsa, uh, was you, and that was, I

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believe, December 13th, 2017 at your

place when BCI, agent Dave Hornyak and

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myself came down and interviewed you

in like a back room, \ of your place.

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And, again, we didn't know if

you were a part of, of this,

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uh, we had full knowledge and

you guys were doing this together.

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We just, we just didn't know.

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So we came into it with an open mind

of, you know, we don't know what

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can come out of this, but you know,

of course we, we did interview you.

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You were very forthcoming, very upfront,

uh, matter of fact, uh, very synced.

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Uh, you knew what you're doing.

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Very cooperative.

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You gave us everything that we asked for.

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You let us talk to your staff.

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Your staff talked to us.

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You gave us all your financials,

everything to do with Baldwin.

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It was just nothing but total cooperation.

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So right there that, you know,

that's a big sign to us that you

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don't have anything to hide, and

we don't know that at the time.

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But that's just the impression

that we came out of there with,

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is that, you know, if you were

involved with him in doing this, you

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know, you sure don't act like it.

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I mean, you, you act like somebody

who's been victimized and, and you

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went into the financial aspect of it,

which at that point, and we didn't know

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that much about, hadn't even started

looking into that at this point.

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So when we came out of there,

we felt like, okay, well now we

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have a lot more information that

you gave us, to go forward on.

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So then Agent Hornyak and myself

began talking about the, the next

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steps, which were okay, getting this

information, putting it together, and

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now approaching Union County with it.

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Okay.

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So that was the next step.

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So I ended up, with a friend, uh, helped

me put together a, I think it was like

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93 or 98 page presentation, slideshow.

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And so we went down to Union

County, I want to say it was

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January 17th or 18th of 2018.

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And, uh, so, uh, myself agent Michelle

Ferraro, an agent from the Ohio Attorney

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General's office, and Agent Dave Hornyak

from BCI, I met with, Dave Phillips,

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who's the Union County prosecutor.

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So at that time, going down there,

we had known through you that

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Baldwin was now moving to California.

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And I think the date that he

had originally planned was like

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February 15th, and the last day he

was taking appointments was, uh,

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February 12th, which was a Monday.

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So our plan was to do a search warrant

on February 12th, which was that Monday.

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So we went into that meeting with

the Union County prosecutor's

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office, not knowing, said they're

gonna just get outta here.

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You know, we're not gonna do anything.

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This is, you know, he, he's great.

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This is our guy, you

know, we just didn't know.

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And then that could absolutely happen.

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You know, but it was just the opposite.

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Dave Phillips was just very, very

super , nice guy, very open to what

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we had to say, listen intently.

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So after seeing the, the slideshow

that we had presented to him, he

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said, well, before he even said that,

I said, well, there's one thing you,

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you have to know, you know, before we

go any further and is that Baldwin is

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leaving for California in mid-February.

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So look, we're we're January 17th or 18th.

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We know he is leaving the 15th.

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And I fully expected him to say,

okay, well he is leaving, just let

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it go, 'cause that's really how law

enforcement treats these types of things.

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So when I asked him that question,

I just kind of held my breath

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thinking, what is he gonna say?

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And he is like, Nope, keep going.

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That's what he said.

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And I was like, all right.

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That's what fantastic.

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So once he said that, then I knew that,

you know, this was gonna be full blown,

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and now we were going to actually start

really getting into this investigation

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'cause they are on board now.

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so, we left that day feeling okay,

pretty good and, let's get into this.

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DrG: I remember the day that you guys

came over because I mean, I was expecting,

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since I had been talking to Litsa a

little bit, you know, that there was

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gonna be this investigation and stuff

and I didn't realize how, you know, all

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the different things that eventually

got, we're found out about this.

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But for me, as you say, as far as

us being cooperative, it was super

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important for me as an individual,

as a veterinarian, and as a business

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owner, to show that we were doing things

correctly and that he had scammed us too.

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Because I was very concerned about

just the pattern of criminal activity

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that he was following, right?

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Like when, before that I was

concerned about him stealing money

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from the nonprofit using it for

personal use and that kind of stuff.

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But Remi was the first time

that I realized that he was

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actually harming these animals.

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So, so, yeah, you know, it was, I don't

wanna say as much, like it was scary, but

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it was like, that's when stuff got real.

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That's when it was like, yeah, these

people are gonna look into this and

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something's gonna come, come about it.

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Det. Jim Conroy:

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That's good.

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I'm glad.

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I know, to me, you know, eventually, I

know how this hurt you and your business

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and, you know, during the case of the

investigation, I always felt bad that I

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could just not speak up and say, "Hey,

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she's a victim", 'cause I know that

you were getting, uh, bashed, as

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far as, you know, being associated

with him and people were linking

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you to him and being part of this.

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Now I'm getting down a little bit

farther, but, uh, you know, I heard all

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those things and read those things that

people were saying, and I was just like,

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I just wanted in the worst way to go,

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like, look, she's a victim,

but I couldn't do that.

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Um, but I, you know, at some point,

you know, we knew that you were

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completely hoodwinked by this guy.

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Um, and it's basically out of just

trying to do what's good and right

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for the animals and, and, and you're

a very giving person and very caring

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person, which I came to find out,

uh, you know, and 'cause we had many

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contacts with you from after that day

of just trying to get an understanding

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of, okay, what does this mean?

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What does that mean?

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I don't understand this.

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Like, how, you know, how is TOPS

of Ohio shelter coming into this?

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Where is this coming from?

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So there was just so many different

rabbit holes in this case.

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It takes you all over the place.

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And, and you were very, very helpful.

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You and your staff, um, Michelle

Scott, was that her name?

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I believe?

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Yes.

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Mm-hmm.

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Very helpful.

355

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And I asked so many questions like,

about this dog or that dog and you,

356

:

you know, put me in touch with some of

the other, uh, veterinarians, uh, other

357

:

staff, other your employees, vet techs.

358

:

So we pretty much talked to and

spoke to probably everybody.

359

:

That had any idea of Steffen

Baldwin that worked for you?

360

:

So you're very forthcoming, very

upfront with us and very much a victim.

361

:

We knew at some point during this that,

you know, you had nothing to do with

362

:

this, and neither did any of the board

members, and any of the volunteers,

363

:

you know, which was surprising to us

that this really was a one man show.

364

:

He did this all himself, and he

did it by lying to every single

365

:

person that we're talking about.

366

:

To you, to your staff, to the board

members that were really in name only.

367

:

DrG: Yeah.

368

:

And it was, it was frustrating.

369

:

You know, it, it's always

frustrating when you know that

370

:

you cannot talk about something.

371

:

'cause on my end, especially with

working with animal cruelty and neglect

372

:

investigations, I know that I don't

wanna share a lot of information out

373

:

there because it can't damage a case.

374

:

And it's like, you know, people

accusing or saying things or asking

375

:

for, for information, and it's like, I

can't give any information out because

376

:

I, again, I don't wanna do anything

that is going to keep him from being

377

:

held accountable for his actions.

378

:

So for, for several years

there were people saying like,

379

:

why didn't you say anything?

380

:

Or why didn't you do anything?

381

:

Not knowing what we were doing

behind the scenes, working, you

382

:

know, trying to get information.

383

:

And then once you started doing the

investigation, working with you to

384

:

try to hold him accountable for it.

385

:

Det. Jim Conroy:

386

:

And that's, you know, and I

know that was hard for you.

387

:

I know it was hard for, uh, Litsa

Kargakos and, and Angelo too.

388

:

Uh, 'cause when I originally went to

them and said, Hey, I think there's more.

389

:

I think we need to go further.

390

:

You know, if we really wanna try to

hold 'em accountable, it's better

391

:

if we have more than just Remi.

392

:

And they were on board with

it, but I don't think they

393

:

were on board for three years.

394

:

And nor did I know that it

was gonna be three years.

395

:

And when I first had taken the

Remi case, I thought, okay, this,

396

:

this might be about three months.

397

:

And then we found those other two, and

I'm thinking, okay, six months, you know,

398

:

but then that timeline, every few months

kept changing and being pushed out further

399

:

because of so much that we had found.

400

:

And it was just the, the full amount of

what is, what I know and, and what we

401

:

have in documentation will never be known.

402

:

I've told people that, you know,

trial probably brought out maybe

403

:

10 to 15% of what he actually did.

404

:

Um, just because of all the different

rules that most people don't understand

405

:

when it comes to trials and courts

and witnesses and things, like a

406

:

lot of things don't ever get in.

407

:

And uh, and that is

definitely the case here.

408

:

Even though it was three weeks long, I

would say that 85% at least of the things

409

:

he has done is not known at this time.

410

:

So there's just a lot to know out there.

411

:

And, you know, no newspaper article

or, you know, even a podcast I don't

412

:

think could ever cover the depths

of, of, of the things he's done.

413

:

It would probably take us a

couple hundred hours for me to

414

:

explain it to you, if not more.

415

:

'cause it's just that complex.

416

:

So the case and, and as you titled this

podcast, Rabbit Hole, that's what it was.

417

:

I could work on something and it, I go

down this rabbit hole, I see something

418

:

else, and it might take me two more

months before I get back to what I was

419

:

working on that night because of all these

other things that came from something

420

:

I found from working on this one thing.

421

:

DrG: So let's go back to, you meet

with Union County and you know

422

:

that, you have the go ahead from

Union County and then he's getting

423

:

ready to leave in a few weeks.

424

:

Det. Jim Conroy:

425

:

So when we left there, Dave Hornyak

and Michelle Ferraro from Ohio

426

:

Attorney General's office, you, I knew

the next step was a search warrant.

427

:

So, you know, I started working on

that and Dave Hornyak helped a lot.

428

:

And we were just, and again, 'cause

this case was so complicated already,

429

:

it was complicated search warrant.

430

:

Nothing was simple in this case.

431

:

And, and, and I struggled with it,

'cause, you know, search warrants are

432

:

usually about one incident, or one

investigation about, you know, one

433

:

thing or, or something around one thing.

434

:

Uh, this was about many

different things already.

435

:

You know, we had three different dogs and

we had, you know, after we interviewed

436

:

you, we had known he had stolen, you

know, had not paid you the money that

437

:

he had owed you from the Art of Act.

438

:

So we knew that, that was like $16,000.

439

:

So, there's a lot of money there

right off the bat from the first

440

:

thing that we're told about.

441

:

And then you had also mentioned

that he had done other fundraisers

442

:

with you and you had never been

paid on any of 'em, which is true.

443

:

Which then I would come to find out,

there was like six, six fundraisers

444

:

he ran with, uh, ACT Ohio and Rascal

Animal Hospital, or Rascal Charities.

445

:

And you guys never received

a dime from any of 'em.

446

:

He kept it all, uh, even so much as the

one where you guys did the, hoarding case.

447

:

Uh, and a year later he publicized

that on a GoFundMe and brought

448

:

in a couple thousand dollars from

it and, and just didn't share.

449

:

You didn't even know about it.

450

:

DrG: I didn't even know

that he had done that.

451

:

Like, that was, yeah.

452

:

So yeah, that was a surprise when

you brought that up to my attention.

453

:

Det. Jim Conroy:

454

:

So with all those things, it was already

complicated search warrant, so it, it was

455

:

a struggle to try to write it because at

that time I, compared to now, I, I knew

456

:

so little at that time, and you know,

this was all new to me too, and it was

457

:

just coming in waves of information

and it was kind of overwhelming.

458

:

So we were writing the search warrant.

459

:

Dave and I would talk on the

phone, you know, almost every night

460

:

and, and just try to go over and

work it out and how to write it.

461

:

Uh, so we knew we were targeting based

on what you had told us, february

462

:

12th was his last appointment.

463

:

So that was a Monday.

464

:

So that was the day we were

gonna do the search warrant.

465

:

So in that time, from January

17th or 18th, then we we're

466

:

working on the search warrant.

467

:

And then it was February 7th of 2018, so

we had about 10 inches of snow that night

468

:

in Youngstown, where, where

I'm from and where I live.

469

:

And so like all the schools were

closed that day, you know, and

470

:

it just couldn't get around.

471

:

And it was like, I still never forget, it

was like:

472

:

call from the Dog Warden of Union County.

473

:

It was Pete Lenhart.

474

:

And he's like, Hey, I know

that we had talked about it.

475

:

'cause he was in the meeting

too with the prosecutor's office.

476

:

He's like, I know that , the search

warrant's set for the 12th he's

477

:

like, but I have just went by his

house and he's got a moving van

478

:

in his yard and it's fully packed.

479

:

And we're like, oh man, okay,

so what are we gonna do?

480

:

Um, search warrant's not done and

nobody packs up the truck and

481

:

you don't sit on it for five days.

482

:

So we're figuring he might go

that afternoon, that evening.

483

:

I called Dave Hornyak, said,

Hey, what are we gonna do?

484

:

You know, can we afford

not to do a search warrant?

485

:

And both of our answers were just

like, no, you know, we gotta do it,

486

:

I'm like, well, we're not done with it.

487

:

And he's like, all right, well,

let me, let me see what I can do.

488

:

I'm gonna call the Union

County Sheriff's Department.

489

:

And he called a Lieutenant Mike Justice,

uh, who's now the sheriff of Union County.

490

:

Super guy.

491

:

Great guy.

492

:

And then I called Dave Phillips

and said, Hey, you know, we

493

:

think he's leaving maybe tonight.

494

:

Um, search warrant's not done.

495

:

It's, you know, the rough draft is done,

but you know, it, it needs cleaned up.

496

:

Goes send it to me, I'll work

on it, and, uh, come on down.

497

:

So I'm three hours away, but

remember there was 10 inches

498

:

of snow and it's still snowing.

499

:

So I immediately get in the

car and then come on down.

500

:

Dave Phillips had touched up the, search

warrant and I went over it, made sure

501

:

everything was good and that was right.

502

:

Then I met with, uh, judge, uh, Frazier.

503

:

So this had to be like five

o'clock in his chambers.

504

:

And we're just hoping that he approves it.

505

:

And again, it's just not

a simple search warrant.

506

:

It's just very difficult.

507

:

So I don't know if he's even gonna

approve it, but, but he does.

508

:

Dave Hornyak had did an amazing

job with the Union County,

509

:

uh, Sheriff's Department.

510

:

So he got union County Sheriff's

and BCI to come up with their mobile

511

:

evidence unit and a BCI agents

and, uh, Ohio Attorney General's

512

:

office, Michelle Ferraro was there.

513

:

I was there.

514

:

So we had, probably a team of 20-25.

515

:

And they, they had actually put, uh,

a team of two detectives on Baldwin's

516

:

house to make sure that he didn't leave.

517

:

So they were, they were, staking

his house out and he had

518

:

left, but he left the truck.

519

:

So they just stayed there at the house

and, kind of figured he was coming back

520

:

'cause somebody came to meet him and

then they got into his car and then

521

:

whoever met him left their car there.

522

:

And same, some dogs got

into the car and they left.

523

:

So we knew he hadn't left yet.

524

:

So we were there.

525

:

So, we were going to serve the

search warrant, which then we did, we

526

:

drove up, which was like 20 minutes

from the sheriff's department.

527

:

We drove to where he was at, which

was, I think state Route 739.

528

:

And so when we got there,

it was a pitch dark.

529

:

It was really dark out.

530

:

It was like six degrees

out that night too.

531

:

It was freezing cold.

532

:

And then, uh, we went, and

then there was no answer.

533

:

There was nobody home.

534

:

And then Mike Justice called Baldwin

on the phone 'cause Mike had his phone

535

:

number because he was a humane agent.

536

:

So he had dealt with Mike here and there,

and he called Baldwin and said, Hey, you

537

:

know, we're here to do a search warrant.

538

:

And I can hear bald Baldwin arguing

with him on other line, but I

539

:

couldn't hear what he was saying.

540

:

But I can hear Baldwin, you know,

he was really arguing with him.

541

:

And, and, and Mike just said, said, you

know, I don't care about any of that.

542

:

He goes, listen, we're gonna go into your

house, whether you're here or not, we're

543

:

giving you the opportunity to come home.

544

:

He goes, but if you're not here

and we go through that door,

545

:

we know your dogs are in there.

546

:

We can't promise you what's gonna happen.

547

:

So, what are you gonna do?

548

:

And he is like, all right,

I'll be right there.

549

:

But he was arguing about coming there, but

then he did come, so we had to go, wait.

550

:

So we went away from the house

and we sat and we waited for

551

:

like an hour until he showed up.

552

:

And then he showed up with

his attorney at, at that time.

553

:

Uh, then we went to the house, we

presented him with the search warrant

554

:

and then we went in the house.

555

:

And what, you know, we had a meeting

beforehand and the meeting was, is

556

:

that, okay, here's what I expect

that we'll find, and that we want,

557

:

okay, we want all his electronic

devices, phone, laptop, cell phones,

558

:

you know, uh, iPads, any computer,

anything, desktop, we want it.

559

:

Any document, we want it.

560

:

Any, any paper that's there,

paper document we want.

561

:

It also, we felt that we might

find drugs and we'll find, we'll

562

:

find guns there, which we did.

563

:

So we got all of those

things during the search.

564

:

And then, because the, uh, van was

packed up, not the van, it was a

565

:

moving truck, so it wasn't a, it

was a pretty decent sized one.

566

:

So we took it to the sheriff's

department 'cause it was so cold outside.

567

:

So we didn't get done with the

search probably until 10 at night.

568

:

Um, and the entire time he had, he

had all of his dogs inside in crates.

569

:

So they barked the entire time.

570

:

It was so loud 'cause there was 10 inside.

571

:

And then Andy was a dog from

Youngstown that was a feral dog,

572

:

was outside, and she was in a

kennel by herself in the backyard.

573

:

So we took it down the truck,

moving truck down to the Sheriff's

574

:

department, where then we unpacked it.

575

:

So we took everything out of it and

photographed everything and went through

576

:

all the different things that we could,

you know, one of the other things

577

:

that I was hearing about was that, you

know, he was lying about being in the

578

:

army, you know, so we, we didn't know

that that was true either at the time.

579

:

And then in that search we had

found some things that indicated

580

:

that he was in the army.

581

:

So that kind of threw us for a loop,

'cause all of the information we had

582

:

at that point in time was that he was

lying about it , and the thought process

583

:

of that was justified because he had a

LinkedIn profile that showed that he had a

584

:

degree from West Point from 1998 to 2001.

585

:

Well, everybody knows West

Point's a four year school.

586

:

You gotta go to it for four years.

587

:

You can't graduate in three.

588

:

So how does he have a degree in

philosophy in three years from West Point?

589

:

So that just seemed off from there.

590

:

Um, and then he was also talking

about being, you know, a paratrooper

591

:

and different things like that.

592

:

And it's like, okay, well how

could you do both at the same time?

593

:

How could you be in the army

being a paratrooper, but then

594

:

also be in a cadet at West Point?

595

:

So there's all this unknown about that.

596

:

And so we saw that yeah, there's some

pictures of here in, in the Army from,

597

:

from unpacking all those different things.

598

:

So that's kind of what I focused on.

599

:

There was a lot of us doing that, just

pulling everything out and taking pictures

600

:

of everything, which would later come

in very, uh, very handy for us because

601

:

there's a lot of, what we didn't know

are things that he stole from ACT Ohio.

602

:

So when you purchase things as a 501c3,

you have to have a receipt of it.

603

:

You know, it has to be for that 501c3.

604

:

And then in Ohio, when any organization,

you know stops existing as a 501c3,

605

:

you're required, you know, by Ohio laws

to then donate all of your property

606

:

that you've bought or purchased, uh,

your assets to other like charities.

607

:

And if you don't do that, then

you're required to present a list to

608

:

the probate court in Union County,

so then they can distribute it.

609

:

Well, of course, of which

he did none of that.

610

:

All of that stuff, or not all of it,

but a large majority of it was on that

611

:

truck, which we didn't know at that time,

including the gun that he had purchased

612

:

with ACT Ohio money was on that truck too

as well, that he eventually, you know,

613

:

was convicted of a, the theft of that gun.

614

:

But we did not know it

was stolen at that time.

615

:

But we took the pictures of the serial

number, you know, it was loaded.

616

:

There was one in the chamber, um,

but, you know, unloaded it, took

617

:

the bullet out of the chamber, took

the pictures, and again, that came

618

:

in handy taking all those pictures.

619

:

Um, all the documents that we also pulled

off the truck were very helpful as well.

620

:

And, the one other thing to note

was that, when I was searching, uh,

621

:

agent Hornyak came up to me during

the search and he's like, Hey, this

622

:

guy's really got a problem with you.

623

:

And I'm like, why?

624

:

He's like, he, he, he's just

blaming you for all of this.

625

:

I'm like, for what?

626

:

He says that you've got a personal

vendetta against him and that

627

:

you're the cause behind all of this.

628

:

And I'm like, okay.

629

:

You know, I, I, I didn't really

know where that was coming from.

630

:

I've never spoken to him in my life.

631

:

And, uh, so I just thought

that was unusual, that.

632

:

I could tell there was hostility

just in the way he was looking at me.

633

:

Um, and so I would later come to

find out, we can get into later

634

:

of where this was coming from.

635

:

But, um, so that was a surprise.

636

:

And so at some point, uh, during the

night, you know, again, agent Hornyak

637

:

comes up to me and he says, Hey, I'm

trying to get, get him to talk to us.

638

:

You know, you ready to interview him?

639

:

And I'm like, yeah, you know, let's

sit down and let's talk to him.

640

:

And, uh, he's like, I don't know if he

will, 'cause he really does not like you.

641

:

And I'm like, okay, well, whatever.

642

:

We're still gonna interview him.

643

:

And then at the end of the

night when we were done with the

644

:

search, now we're, we're tired.

645

:

This is like two in the morning now.

646

:

And we were in the, uh, the, one

of the bays of the inside of the

647

:

garage at the sheriff's department.

648

:

And then, so we walked up to him and

his attorney and said, , do you wanna,

649

:

you know, you wanna sit down and talk?

650

:

And, uh, his attorney said, I gave my

client the advice, and, and, and Baldwin

651

:

said on the advice of my attorney,

I, I'm not gonna answer any questions.

652

:

Uh, so we, uh, he, uh, attorney gave

us the information of, you know, his

653

:

address of where he was going, gave us

his phone number, and, um, that was it.

654

:

He was free to go.

655

:

And he asked if he was free to go and

we're like, yeah, he's free to go.

656

:

And, uh, I believe in the next

morning, on February 8th, and he

657

:

then left, uh, for California.

658

:

So again, long-winded story.

659

:

Like all of them are in this

particular case, they all are.

660

:

All, all of these stories

are gonna be long.

661

:

DrG: I mean, nothing, nothing is simple.

662

:

And it's because there's, there's

just so many angles to everything.

663

:

So was he able to take that moving truck?

664

:

Det. Jim Conroy:

665

:

Yeah, we only confiscated the

marijuana that we took, and the

666

:

documentation and all of his electronics.

667

:

So he had no phone.

668

:

He had no laptop, he had no iPad.

669

:

Um, so he didn't have any

of those things with him.

670

:

But, you know, we got everything that we

thought we would have or that we wanted.

671

:

And what was, again, later I would

find out in a message, like he would

672

:

talk about that night of the search

warrant in his messages to other people.

673

:

And he would say like, how we got nothing.

674

:

And, uh, it was a joke and, and they

got nothing on me and they got nothing.

675

:

And, you know, that's why

I was allowed to leave.

676

:

Um, you know, he always played it down

of, of, uh, you know, what we were doing.

677

:

Um, either, you know, to

the people he would talk to.

678

:

He was blaming this all on me as this

was a personal vendetta on my part,

679

:

and that I was, uh, I guess Litsa and

Angelo had put up a $5,000 reward.

680

:

So he had me taking that, uh,

that I was taking that reward

681

:

is what he was telling people.

682

:

Um, he had me, uh, doing this

on, on my own time off the clock.

683

:

Where he got that from, uh, that I was

doing this like as a private person.

684

:

So he had all these stories that he had

created about, what I was, my part in

685

:

the investigation, and this is what I

would come to learn of him, is that he

686

:

was always blaming somebody for whatever

was happening to him, not himself.

687

:

Always somebody else.

688

:

So this was his defense to everybody's

like, what's going on with you?

689

:

Why are the police here?

690

:

You know, I heard you got, you know, a

search warrant, they came to your house

691

:

and, you know, his response to them well

is that, you know, Litsa and Angelo, you

692

:

know, were vindictive and outta control

and can't accept the fact that Remi was

693

:

a monster and that they have gotten me,

they're they're little private pit bull

694

:

working for, you know, reward money.

695

:

And I got a personal vendetta against

him, This is what's telling everybody?

696

:

And I'm like, gee, you know,

I would find out later.

697

:

I didn't know that night.

698

:

Um, 'cause I'd never spoken to him.

699

:

But as, as usual, what he would

always do was set things up.

700

:

Again, I would learn this, he would start

setting up things months ahead of time.

701

:

DrG: Yeah, he was, he was really good at

sharing stuff on Facebook and getting his

702

:

followers to believe what he was saying.

703

:

And I mean, realistically, like anybody

that has a business, you're always

704

:

gonna have somebody that's not happy

with you and that person, you know,

705

:

he, he spun it as, like you said, Litsa

had this dog that was like a really

706

:

dangerous dog and he had to euthanize it.

707

:

And then now they're blaming him

and they're really mad at him.

708

:

And, you know, he, he makes himself

be the victim of everything.

709

:

Right.

710

:

So, I, I understand why a lot of his

followers believed him because everything

711

:

that they ever saw about him was good.

712

:

Was about all his pictures, supposedly

helping these animals and adopting

713

:

these animals and finding animals home.

714

:

And then he just kept posting about

rescuing animals from different kill

715

:

facilities or dogs that were on death row.

716

:

And, you know, doing his little

hashtag "Don't euthanize me, bro".

717

:

And he was just feeding off the,

the kindness and the, and the heart

718

:

for animals that people have, right?

719

:

It's like it, he found, he found

a great scam because people are

720

:

going to have a special place

in their heart for animal causes.

721

:

So he, you know, he took, uh, animals that

were being attacked for whatever reason,

722

:

whether it was because of their breed or

behavior, and then he was just taking that

723

:

and, and running with everybody's money.

724

:

Really?

725

:

Det. Jim Conroy:

726

:

Yeah.

727

:

And, and their emotion.

728

:

Um, you know, one of the ways I explain

it is that, for me, personally, you

729

:

know, I, I was an athlete growing up

and, and, I never celebrated, you

730

:

know, anything until it was over.

731

:

Um, you know, and I always

felt that celebrating anything

732

:

prematurely was always a mistake

and always come back and bite you.

733

:

And so I learned at a

young age not to do that.

734

:

What I noticed about him was that, as

I had told other people in the case,

735

:

uh, you know, prosecutors or other

law enforcement officers, every, the

736

:

beginning of everything he got initially

involved in was like the Super Bowl.

737

:

It was celebrated as an end victory.

738

:

I've removed this dog that was

gonna be euthanized tonight

739

:

at midnight or whatever.

740

:

I came in at, you know,

the last hour removed it.

741

:

The dog doesn't have any of these issues.

742

:

It's doing great.

743

:

It's fine with me.

744

:

These people were wrong

in their assessment.

745

:

And look at how wonderful

this dog is doing.

746

:

Just an hour ago he was on death row.

747

:

Now he's at my house, you know, around

another dog and everything's wonderful.

748

:

And people went crazy for it.

749

:

Like he saved another one.

750

:

Well, that was just the beginning.

751

:

And, and, well, that all may

have sounded good at the time,

752

:

but it was none of it was true.

753

:

All of this ends up just all being a lie.

754

:

I can say that whatever he posted and

whatever he said to do or he should do, or

755

:

what people should do, or what he's doing

with these dogs, he didn't do any of that.

756

:

He did the opposite.

757

:

Every one of these dogs that

he took in, he set up to fail.

758

:

Everyone.

759

:

I don't know that I know of

any story of any one dog that

760

:

he did the right thing for.

761

:

Not one.

762

:

DrG: So now you have all of the

documents, the computer, the phone.

763

:

So what do you do with all this

information that you now have?

764

:

Det. Jim Conroy:

765

:

We met like around February 20th,

again, down in, uh, London, BCI.

766

:

So we processed all of the documents

of the paperwork, 'cause we have a,

767

:

a lot of just documents and we try to

put 'em in piles to what they belong

768

:

to or what they were related to.

769

:

Um, and then we put 'em in PDFs.

770

:

So we then submitted through machine

and then put 'em in through PDFs.

771

:

So it was just trying to organize,

uh, you know, like a whole

772

:

big tub full of documents.

773

:

So they're imagine like a

three foot long tub, two feet

774

:

high, full of paper documents.

775

:

So, , we try just to put 'em in

categories, organize ' em again,

776

:

not knowing what any of them mean.

777

:

None of them mean anything

to us at this point in time.

778

:

So there's like a lot vet records

in there that, that I found and, and

779

:

other different things, but at that

time, you know, we just didn't know

780

:

what it was, but we were down there.

781

:

And then that's also the day that

the Ohio Attorney General's office,

782

:

agent Ferraro said that, uh, they're

backing out of the investigation.

783

:

So, which was a blow, I mean, because

they were gonna handle all the financial

784

:

aspects of it, and she didn't know

why, uh, agent Hornyak, didn't know

785

:

why, and he tried to find an answer and

could not get an answer as to why they

786

:

pull all of a sudden just pulled out

after we had done the search warrant.

787

:

So this was like one of many, many

roadblocks that, you know, this case would

788

:

throw us or that we'd have to overcome.

789

:

Not a lot of mountains, but a lot of

valleys, cliffs, hills, downward.

790

:

I mean, just, it, it was just, this

was the first of, of many roadblocks.

791

:

So we don't know why they got out.

792

:

Just, Hey, we're out.

793

:

That's it, we're done.

794

:

And no explanation, nothing.

795

:

Don't know why.

796

:

And the next thing I know is I

gotta go down and pick up the disc.

797

:

They won't send it to me either.

798

:

So I have to drive all the way down

to Columbus just to pick up the

799

:

disc of information that they have

from the PDFs that we did that day.

800

:

Then from that point on, agent Hornyak

wrote the search warrant for Facebook.

801

:

Uh.

802

:

So we wanted to get all the Facebook

rep records, Instagram records, um,

803

:

then we had to write search warrant

for the electronic items, the, the, the

804

:

laptop, the, the phone, um, the iPad,

so that those were the next steps.

805

:

And then after writing those

search warrants, then waiting,

806

:

to get the information back.

807

:

So that was on February 20th.

808

:

I think the search warrants were submitted

that day and we organized all the PDFs.

809

:

And then, um, you know, we just went

back to doing the case again and

810

:

looking through all the information.

811

:

I was looking through the PDFs again, none

of it was like making any sense to me.

812

:

Like this was just a lot of

information and a lot of, I

813

:

don't know at this point in time.

814

:

I also wanted to back up though, after

the January meeting, you know, I did

815

:

call two people , so we started making

calls, attorney General's office after

816

:

we met with Union County Prosecutor's

office in mid-January, and we knew we

817

:

were gonna write the search warrant.

818

:

We started calling people too as well.

819

:

And then that's when the Ohio Attorney

General's office had talked to the,

820

:

you know, the board members and

said that we didn't find anything.

821

:

And I had called two people.

822

:

And what I would find out later

is they immediately turned around

823

:

and called him and told him.

824

:

So that's something else we could talk

about later, but I got nothing from them.

825

:

So like our initial contacts

with people, we got nothing.

826

:

Uh, attorney General's got nothing from

any of the board members, and the two

827

:

people I called didn't wanna talk to me.

828

:

So I'm like, oh, this is, you

know, this is gonna be a lot

829

:

more difficult than I thought.

830

:

So we, you know, did the search

warrants submit the information.

831

:

So I started going back and looking

at again, all of the comments

832

:

that people were making that

were of possibly, they had some

833

:

information, Hey, this dog is missing.

834

:

That dog is missing.

835

:

So I called these people and that's kind

of where it started to go from there.

836

:

And then I started gathering more

information, um, little by little.

837

:

And then I'd say, okay, well who, do

you know someone who knows something?

838

:

Do they have a story?

839

:

Who do you know that knows a story?

840

:

And so everyone I talked to, I'd ask

'em that question and they'd give me

841

:

maybe another name, another person.

842

:

Some of these panned

out, some of them didn't.

843

:

So I was doing that.

844

:

And then, you know, going

through all the documents, just

845

:

trying to find other things.

846

:

And then on April 9th is when

the Facebook return came.

847

:

And that meant from

his ACT Ohio, Facebook.

848

:

And then his, um, personal

Facebook page came.

849

:

And so that's when all the messages came.

850

:

And so when I first opened it

up, it was 131,000 pages and

851

:

it's just like, oh my God.

852

:

Where do I even start?

853

:

This is like absurd.

854

:

And it was 441,000 messages.

855

:

Now.

856

:

That's, a lot of information.

857

:

And so, you know, people are getting

suggestions from, well just type

858

:

in Remi and just, you know, any

message that has to do with Remi.

859

:

And I thought, you know what?

860

:

This is, I'm just gonna

start at the beginning.

861

:

I'm just gonna start at message one.

862

:

And, you know, I'm glad I did

'cause it was just, I tried that

863

:

Remi thing, punching it in, but

then you can get in conversations

864

:

where he is having with somebody.

865

:

But not saying Remi in that particular

statement, you know, talking about

866

:

Remi, but Remi might be mentioned

every fourth conversation, you know,

867

:

so I, and I'm like, I can't do that.

868

:

I, I'm gonna miss, so I just

started it at the beginning and

869

:

I looked at it 441,000 messages.

870

:

All right?

871

:

How, you know, in if I read a thousand

messages a day, that's gonna take me.

872

:

437, 441 days.

873

:

So that's like a year

and a year and a half.

874

:

I can't do that.

875

:

I mean, so I figured out if I do

like 7,500 a day, I might be able

876

:

to get through this in two months

now, but that's also going through

877

:

700 7500 a day and then coming

across something that's of interest.

878

:

So what I decided to do is just get

a Word document and anytime a message

879

:

just raised the flag to me, just didn't

make sense, didn't look right, I need

880

:

to look at that further, I'd copy it

and paste it onto the Word document.

881

:

And that's what I did.

882

:

So I would come home and I would start

like at seven o'clock every night.

883

:

And I'd go to about 1:00

AM Monday through Thursday.

884

:

And then Friday I would go, seven

pm to 4:00 AM and then Saturday I'd

885

:

go from like 1:00 PM to 5:00 AM and

just read messages and Sunday, 1:00

886

:

PM to 11:00 PM and just read messages

and copy paste them, copy paste them.

887

:

So it took me almost exactly two months to

get through the first time through these

888

:

messages, not knowing what I had just

read, not understanding any of it, but

889

:

putting 'em all into this Word document.

890

:

So then I went into the Word document and

it was like 668 pages of notes that were

891

:

just messages that were copied and pasted.

892

:

So the next thing I did was like,

try to put 'em in categories

893

:

because this is over a course of,

of a long time that we're talking.

894

:

So he could talk about one dog and

then talk about that same dog a

895

:

year later, you know, or six months

later, a year later, 15 months later.

896

:

So I just tried to put them

in categories and, and make a

897

:

little bit more sense of it.

898

:

And then I started getting a, a,

a better understanding picture

899

:

and idea of, okay, this is like

making a little bit more sense.

900

:

Then I went through it again a

second time, I read it again.

901

:

Um, and then it made a lot more sense.

902

:

Uh, so things were starting to come in.

903

:

So the second time reading

it, I'm like, oh, okay.

904

:

I remember that from the first one.

905

:

I'd go to the notes.

906

:

I'd see that.

907

:

I see that dog.

908

:

And then I'd go to your, your

documentation from all the vet

909

:

records that you turned over.

910

:

And I would look for that dog and

say, okay, this dog was euthanized.

911

:

Okay, so this, you know, so this is

how I started finding these different

912

:

dogs, was just by categorizing all these

different dogs and all these different

913

:

stories, trying to group 'em together,

and then starting to match him up against

914

:

the documentation that we removed from

his house that were vet records, the

915

:

documentation that we had from you.

916

:

I had called, uh, also when I went

through the first time, through

917

:

his Facebook, anytime he mentioned a

veterinarian office, you know, I wrote

918

:

it down and I contacted that vet office

and I asked for all their documents.

919

:

And I believe it was like 11 outside

or including yours, so 11 total.

920

:

So then I'd call and get all

the documentation from those

921

:

places as well if they had 'em.

922

:

Um, so then having all that information,

then when the dog would come up, you

923

:

know, and it just seemed like, okay,

well this dog, something happened to it.

924

:

Oh, I found it, it's euthanized, uh, you

know, in your records, or I'd find it

925

:

in other records that it was euthanized.

926

:

Uh, so then that's how the story

started putting together of, you

927

:

know, more dogs were involved in this.

928

:

And it was just from going

through his Facebook messages.

929

:

And I also found out, you know, how he

lied to everybody and you could see it

930

:

in, in his lies, but he, when he liked

somebody, so if he was involved in a

931

:

relationship or was interested in somebody

or flirting with them, that is when he

932

:

would reveal the truth to these people.

933

:

But he would only give to

different people, different things.

934

:

So he never reveal

anything all to one person.

935

:

But over the course of, you know,

him chasing after all these different

936

:

women and flirting with them, he

would tell them these stories and

937

:

he may not have told them the entire

truth, but he would give me enough

938

:

to go and look at and follow up on.

939

:

And that was always, uh, gold in this case

when he would talk to girlfriends, people

940

:

he was interested in, uh, especially

ones that he really liked, then you

941

:

get even more information from him.

942

:

And then this case was

really made on what he said.

943

:

There's nothing that I've wrote

in any report or that I stated in

944

:

any report or that I'm stating on

here that I cannot back up with

945

:

using his own words against him.

946

:

Because that is how it was made

and it was made on those messages.

947

:

Uh, you know, from his phone.

948

:

We got text messages that we got emails.

949

:

So, from that search warrant, we got

a whole slew of other information too,

950

:

which was huge to go through that as well.

951

:

Um, you know, then we also got

a Facebook return of the, how

952

:

it actually looked on Facebook.

953

:

Now that.

954

:

Shut down computers, that that

file was so massive it would

955

:

freeze my computer all the time.

956

:

And then I asked BCI to try

to do something with it.

957

:

It was freezing their computers.

958

:

So I wasn't even looking

at that for a while.

959

:

'cause they gave us an Excel spreadsheet

that just had the messages in there.

960

:

So it would've the date, the time

who the message was from, who it

961

:

was to, you know, and then it would

have what the actual message was.

962

:

So it was that Facebook, Excel messenger

that I had to rely on, which was good

963

:

'cause it, it, it cut out all the pictures

and that it was just the messages.

964

:

, and that's really, how this case was made

and where all that information came from.

965

:

And then that's when I started finding,

okay, these are the people that I

966

:

really, you know, need to call and

talk to the people that were behind

967

:

these dogs, the rescues, you know.

968

:

So I found out who the rescues were,

who the individuals were, and went

969

:

through all of their messages with him.

970

:

So then I would follow the conversations

with whatever rescue it was, whatever

971

:

person was talking to him about that

dog and about that dog and that person

972

:

and every conversation they had.

973

:

And then, you know, it

wasn't always one person.

974

:

Sometimes it'd be five or six people

from a rescue, uh, Gucci for instance.

975

:

He talked to many people about Gucci.

976

:

So it wasn't just

following one conversation.

977

:

There were six, seven different women

that were talking to him about Gucci.

978

:

So it was getting all that

information, putting it together.

979

:

Getting an idea what happened, and

then calling those people and stating,

980

:

okay, who I am and why I'm calling.

981

:

And, you know, it's about, you know,

your dog, what do you know about this?

982

:

And then eventually telling

'em that their dog was dead.

983

:

Um, most people were

just devastated, crushed.

984

:

Couple, didn't believe me.

985

:

One hung up on me, wouldn't believe me.

986

:

I had several people that argued with me.

987

:

I talked to one of his girlfriends

who refused to believe anything

988

:

or what I was telling her.

989

:

Nothing.

990

:

And I kept stating, I have the

documentation right in front of me.

991

:

No, you don't, you don't have it.

992

:

And then she would tell me things that

you told her that were, you didn't tell

993

:

her because that's not what you told me.

994

:

And that's not what

the documentation said.

995

:

And she was really difficult to,

to, to talk to, to get to cooperate.

996

:

And I believe she knew a lot, but she

just would not give up anything on him.

997

:

Um, and, and I could see the messages

that they had with each other.

998

:

Uh, and he confessed a lot to her.

999

:

But, you know, she tried to, , play it

down or, you know, or state what the dogs

:

00:53:45,294 --> 00:53:47,744

did, or, you know, make them that fault.

:

00:53:48,194 --> 00:53:49,544

But they weren't even together.

:

00:53:50,444 --> 00:53:53,804

But I mean, those are just the different

things that I came across were, you

:

00:53:53,804 --> 00:53:57,284

know, refusal to believe me when I was

telling him that he wouldn't do that.

:

00:53:57,284 --> 00:53:59,564

That the dog was adopted,

the dog was happy.

:

00:53:59,974 --> 00:54:02,314

And I'm like, no, that's,

that's not it at all.

:

00:54:02,314 --> 00:54:03,394

I'm telling you that's not.

:

00:54:03,394 --> 00:54:06,604

So some, some of these people I had to

share information with and like read

:

00:54:07,054 --> 00:54:12,214

messages like, Hey, look, this is a

message that he wrote to you on this date.

:

00:54:12,514 --> 00:54:16,264

And then this is a message that he

is writing to another person stating

:

00:54:16,354 --> 00:54:17,974

the same thing about your dog.

:

00:54:18,904 --> 00:54:22,164

Um, and here is the, , I'm gonna read

to you from the vet record of the

:

00:54:22,164 --> 00:54:24,534

day of the Euthanization, you know?

:

00:54:24,534 --> 00:54:28,904

And so it, that was difficult

conversations with quite a few people

:

00:54:29,494 --> 00:54:34,644

, 'cause they were just crushed, and

wrecked basically , emotionally, and

:

00:54:34,644 --> 00:54:36,324

of course the blaming and the guilt.

:

00:54:36,854 --> 00:54:39,884

And, you know, knowing that they

had, you know, handed their dog off

:

00:54:39,884 --> 00:54:41,174

to someone they thought was helping.

:

00:54:41,684 --> 00:54:45,954

And, actually it was, uh,

the grim reaper for the dog.

:

00:54:46,344 --> 00:54:48,684

That's basically who people

were handing the dog into.

:

00:54:49,284 --> 00:54:52,854

Now, he, he said in, uh, several

comments that anytime a dog was

:

00:54:52,854 --> 00:54:55,554

with me, no dog could ever be hurt.

:

00:54:55,554 --> 00:54:56,664

And it's in the best of hands.

:

00:54:56,664 --> 00:54:58,614

And, and I always found

out to be the opposite.

:

00:54:59,214 --> 00:55:05,094

Anytime a dog was put in his hands

that dog's life was in jeopardy, either

:

00:55:05,094 --> 00:55:09,789

through him euthanizing it, or it getting

killed at his house because his setup

:

00:55:09,789 --> 00:55:13,759

was so awful , and just through the

recklessness and the negligence that

:

00:55:13,759 --> 00:55:17,033

was constantly going on at the time.

:

00:55:17,593 --> 00:55:21,613

He, uh, he was a drug user

and he was a daily drug user.

:

00:55:22,103 --> 00:55:24,463

, and when I say daily, I

mean every single day.

:

00:55:24,463 --> 00:55:27,013

I don't know that there was

any day that he was sober.

:

00:55:27,343 --> 00:55:29,593

He was drinking and or smoking marijuana.

:

00:55:30,073 --> 00:55:35,033

So the outcomes of dogs or things that can

happen when, when you're high like that,

:

00:55:35,553 --> 00:55:41,888

, the consequences, uh, are higher because

of, you know, there's at times that,

:

00:55:41,948 --> 00:55:45,398

you know, he admitted to falling asleep

and, and the dog ate all of his drugs.

:

00:55:45,728 --> 00:55:48,818

You know, those are things that

he's admitted to, you know, or has

:

00:55:48,818 --> 00:55:51,878

gotten into something that was toxic

'cause he got high and passed out.

:

00:55:53,448 --> 00:55:58,308

So there's just those different stories

that he has, where it's just recklessness,

:

00:55:58,338 --> 00:56:03,618

negligence, let alone, when he was

supposed to be in decompression with dogs

:

00:56:03,618 --> 00:56:08,718

or training 'em, he would just put 'em

together and a huge fight would break out.

:

00:56:09,498 --> 00:56:14,988

So it was just irresponsibility,

recklessness, negligence,

:

00:56:15,858 --> 00:56:17,178

sometimes stupidity.

:

00:56:17,358 --> 00:56:17,868

I don't know.

:

00:56:17,868 --> 00:56:20,478

He's smart, but I won't, at what

point don't you learn your lesson

:

00:56:20,928 --> 00:56:21,888

from the things he's doing?

:

00:56:21,918 --> 00:56:25,578

'cause they continue to recur

over and over and over again.

:

00:56:26,058 --> 00:56:27,678

So it just became patterns.

:

00:56:28,248 --> 00:56:31,698

So I ended up reading the

Facebook four times over.

:

00:56:32,358 --> 00:56:35,868

Um, and each time was easier 'cause

then I could pick out or what I

:

00:56:35,868 --> 00:56:38,448

knew was important and what wasn't.

:

00:56:38,448 --> 00:56:42,048

And then every time I'd go through

I'd find more and more and then

:

00:56:42,048 --> 00:56:45,318

going through his emails and his text

messages and it was more and more.

:

00:56:45,318 --> 00:56:46,428

And then calling people.

:

00:56:46,818 --> 00:56:51,228

And then all of a sudden after that

initial, you know, people not talking

:

00:56:51,228 --> 00:56:56,658

to us, once I had the information and

people started opening up and providing

:

00:56:57,318 --> 00:57:00,498

all they knew and weren't holding back

or weren't afraid 'cause their dog

:

00:57:00,498 --> 00:57:03,438

was now dead and they were angry or

they were upset and they can't believe

:

00:57:03,438 --> 00:57:05,418

it, but now they're gonna cooperate.

:

00:57:05,687 --> 00:57:10,157

DrG: I, I think that one of the things

that helped on our end was that most of

:

00:57:10,157 --> 00:57:14,567

his communications with me was always

either Facebook messenger or through text.

:

00:57:14,927 --> 00:57:19,787

So it was really easy for me to be able

to say, no, this is what happened, but

:

00:57:19,817 --> 00:57:21,317

you don't have to take my word for it.

:

00:57:21,557 --> 00:57:24,677

Here's the text that shows, yes,

this is exactly what happened.

:

00:57:24,677 --> 00:57:27,637

Here's the messenger showing that

this is exactly what happened.

:

00:57:27,937 --> 00:57:33,097

And then from a medical record standpoint,

we had our medical records to show this

:

00:57:33,097 --> 00:57:34,717

is what he said, this is what was done.

:

00:57:34,717 --> 00:57:39,197

This was the outcome regardless of

what his reasoning or excuses were.

:

00:57:39,797 --> 00:57:39,798

Det. Jim Conroy:

:

00:57:39,798 --> 00:57:40,037

Right.

:

00:57:40,037 --> 00:57:41,627

And that's exactly right.

:

00:57:41,627 --> 00:57:46,787

And that's how, again, your

cooperation, your records, matching

:

00:57:46,787 --> 00:57:51,877

that documentation up with the day

of the incident and in his messaging

:

00:57:51,877 --> 00:57:56,947

with whoever was involved, with you or

with his girlfriend or with whomever.

:

00:57:57,517 --> 00:57:58,147

There it is.

:

00:57:58,147 --> 00:58:00,037

There's no reason to lie at that point.

:

00:58:00,807 --> 00:58:05,787

And so that's kind of how, the case was

put together, uh, through many other ways.

:

00:58:05,787 --> 00:58:08,307

There's no one way to say it was

put together this way or that way.

:

00:58:08,337 --> 00:58:11,127

'cause of the complicated

nature of the entire case.

:

00:58:11,517 --> 00:58:13,107

'cause there were so

many different things.

:

00:58:13,107 --> 00:58:17,997

But for the animal part of it,

that's how it was put together.

:

00:58:17,997 --> 00:58:20,037

And it was all through

Baldwin's own words.

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About the Podcast

The Animal Welfare Junction
Veterinary Forensics
The Animal Welfare Junction is a podcast developed to bring awareness to different topics in animal welfare. The host, Michelle Gonzalez (Dr. G) is a veterinarian who provides affordable veterinary care in the State of Ohio, and also a Forensic Veterinarian helping with the investigation and prosecution of cases of animal cruelty and neglect.
The topics presented are based on the experiences of Dr. G and our guests and include discussions about real cases, humane projects, and legal issues that affect animals and the community. Due to the nature of the discussion, listener discretion is advised as some topics may be too strong for some listeners.

About your host

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Alba Gonzalez

Michelle González (DrG) was born and raised in Puerto Rico. Her passion growing up was to become a veterinarian. She obtained a B.S. in Zoology at Michigan State University and the Doctor of Veterinary Medicine degree at The Ohio State University, followed by a 1-yr Internship in Medicine, Surgery, Emergency and Critical Care at the University of Missouri-Columbia. In 2006 she founded the Rascal Unit, a mobile clinic offering accesible and affordable sterilization, and wellness services throughout the State of Ohio.
Dr. G is involved in many aspects of companion veterinary medicine including education, shelter assistance and help to animals that are victims of cruelty and neglect.
DrG completed a Master’s degree in Veterinary Forensics from the University of Florida and a Master’s in Forensic Psychology from Southern New Hampshire University. She is currently enrolled at the University of Florida Forensic Science program. She assists Humane organizations and animal control officers in the investigation, evaluation, and prosecution of cases of animal cruelty and neglect.